vozaday Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 Greetings, I appear to have a coolant leak on my 15 Journey 3.6. I noticed a whiff of steam coming from the front grille pulling into the garage yesterday. I could smell coolant. So I popped the hood and found a little coolant on the radiator. Also checking the oil it looks slightly orange. Could be just paranoid me but I thought that at the last oil change too. I’m out of warranty. Any advise? Just replace the radiator or is there something else I should be looking at too. Never noticed any overheating or loss of coolant in the reservoir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhareFred Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 Coolant and oil mixing could be a couple things. I believe the DJ has an oil cooler that when fails the two can mix (although I might be confusing with my Cherokee) or a head gasket. The leaking radiator may or not be part of it. I’m sure someone more knowledgeable will chime in. My days of DIY are out the window, mine goes to the dealer (lifetime extended warranty) for everything......good luck! vozaday and larryl 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John/Horace Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) Need to watch glycol and oil levels closely, one of them needs to be going down. When glycol gets into the oil you can really tell; water based and oil based fluids mixing is messy, foamy brownish. Engine oil heat exchanger mounted on top of engine has glycol going through to cool/heat. It’s made of plastic and there have been failures, mainly of oil leaking out on drivers side where oil pressure sending unit is mounted. The way engine casting is built the oil I think will always leak on this side. Glycol could also leak from unit, only one case on this forum so far. Changing oil disturbs heat exchanger a little, oil filter housing is part of assembly so leak could be triggered by oil change when oil cap removed/torqued to 27 NM. Cooling system could be pressure tested to see if it’s losing pressure. But location could be tricky, rad or heat exchanger, water pump etc. Put clean cardboard under car over night and try to find exact location if possible. Bright orange liquid, no oil smell as you know. Glycol could even come from various hoses. Rad/heat exchanger could be fine. Edited February 25, 2020 by John/Horace OhareFred and vozaday 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vozaday Posted February 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) Thank you for the responses. Only reason I’m concerned about oil is that at 100k km I changed the oil myself after warranty was up. I was also taking the opportunity to teach my son. The oil seemed to have a dark purple tinge to it as it drained. Enough my son even mentioned it. The engine was warm from being just run and no milkyness whatsoever. And no milkyness right now. It was always changed at the dealership before so I don’t know what type of oil they used or if it was always like that. And now the radiator does this. I just did a pressure test, pressure is dropping. But likely from the rad leak. The coolant level is down 1/4” from where I last checked it, but the engine was warm and is now cold. Still half way on the tank level range. Edited February 25, 2020 by vozaday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryl Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 You dont want coolant getting into the transmission.... jkeaton 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John/Horace Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) Just temperature can cause 1/4” glycol drop so can’t really go by that. Any time I have seen glycol in an engine its a real mess. Try putting a few ounces of oil and mixed Chrysler glycol in a container and stir, would confirm it. Even bad cap on pressure reservoir could drop pressure. If rad pinhole leak, it will gradually increase. Glycol around front pulleys points to water pump. Need to not beef too much on oil filter cap, follow torque spec stamped on cap. Some people are blaming over tightening for heat exchanger failure; usually oil leak, but could be glycol to. I think design is not great. Dealers use a bulk oil from drums, probably not synthetic unless you are paying for upgrade.. Good quality but not the best. I would use 5w20 synthetic from now on, great for extreme cold starts and high summer heat. Transmission is not tied into radiator tanks on 3.6 engine. There is a separate finned heat exchanger in front of a/c condenser. Probably the only cooling/heating. Edited February 25, 2020 by John/Horace vozaday, Summer Solstice and jkeaton 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vozaday Posted February 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 Ok, so game plan is we will assume head gaskets are fine. Since no temp issues. Replace radiator, and since I’m draining the system anyways I’m going to replace water pump, thermostat and oil cooler. I had read that one thread about the tstat causing the radiator to pop or something like that. Ended up having warped heads. So that was the bulk of my concern with the radiator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhareFred Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 Is the water pump internal like on the 3.5? If so, might want to look at the labor involved in that before buying it...... vozaday 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vozaday Posted February 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 I hadn’t looked into that. I hate the internal designs. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vozaday Posted February 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 Has a pulley so looks external Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John/Horace Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 Water pump covers large part of front of engine not internal. So motor mount etc has to come off, surpentine tensioner etc. Time consuming job, took me about 3 hrs and I’ve changed pumps on quite a few different vehicles. I wouldn’t change anything until leak isolated. That’s over a thousand in parts alone, approx. for the stuff you mentioned. How fast is pressure dropping in rad, just temp cooling off will drop pressure by itself. OhareFred, vozaday and Summer Solstice 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vozaday Posted February 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 In the picture you can see the stain on the radiator, so that’s the leak. It’s a picture of the front side of the rad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vozaday Posted March 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 Got the radiator changed out. Will keep a close eye on coolant levels over the next couple days. Summer Solstice, jkeaton, larryl and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John/Horace Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 Thanks for the update. Aftermarket or Mopar, just curious. jkeaton 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vozaday Posted March 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 (edited) Spectra Edited March 12, 2020 by vozaday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vozaday Posted March 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 Looks like I need to dig further. I think I may have damaged a hose upon teardown or installation. When I installed the radiator I pressure tested the system and it held. I added coolant and ran the engine up to temp. Pressure checked it and it did drop very slowly, about .5 psi in 10 min. Chalked it up to it cooling down. Drove around and let it sit overnight. Pressure checked it this morning and it dropped 1 psi per minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John/Horace Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 When I changed my water pump I also replaced the thermostat. High milage vehicle and it can be a wear item and it’s cheap so I changed it out. Wrestling hoses and plastic parts and cold weather not a great combination. Entire plastic housing and thermostat with new oring flange gasket and bleeder screw built in for $24 approx from Rockauto, oem part. Look for a drip over night maybe, put clean cardboard under engine. vozaday 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summer Solstice Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 8 hours ago, vozaday said: Looks like I need to dig further. I think I may have damaged a hose upon teardown or installation. When I installed the radiator I pressure tested the system and it held. I added coolant and ran the engine up to temp. Pressure checked it and it did drop very slowly, about .5 psi in 10 min. Chalked it up to it cooling down. Drove around and let it sit overnight. Pressure checked it this morning and it dropped 1 psi per minute. When draining the coolant and replacing parts in the system it is not uncommon to get an air pocket in the lines and passageways of the engine and particulaly in the heater core. Maybe these are working out and that is accounting for your very slow pressure drop. Just something to consider as you keep an eye on it. 2late4u 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2late4u Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 21 minutes ago, Summer Solstice said: When draining the coolant and replacing parts in the system it is not uncommon to get an air pocket in the lines and passageways of the engine and particulaly in the heater core. Maybe these are working out and that is accounting for your very slow pressure drop. Just something to consider as you keep an eye on it. most likely the cause as above statement not a journey but will get you looking for what you need vozaday and larryl 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2late4u Posted March 13, 2020 Report Share Posted March 13, 2020 actually i looked at my 2014 3.6 and looks different from the video from what i could tell the thermostat housing and bleed strew is on the right side of the engine by the oil cooler i would run by the dealership parts department and check it out with them or may be a a local part store would have one as well...good luck vozaday 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vozaday Posted March 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2020 Ok, so I found out my drastic pressure drop is due to a faulty pressure tester. BUT, I still do have an extremely minor leak. I can smell it and I did manage to catch a couple drops on a paper towel under the rad. So I’m guessing I must have damaged it or had a defect from factory. Looks like I will be starting over again. Ironically it is on the same side as the original rad leak, but must be the backside this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John/Horace Posted March 16, 2020 Report Share Posted March 16, 2020 Spectra is an ok brand I’ve used them. Should be some kind of warranty on it. Fins can be brushed back a bit in a few spots without any issues, just looks bad. There are thin tubes atttatched to fins that carry the glycol, look for a kink in one of these. The older full copper rads were more durable than new plastic tank aluminum units . Smelling glycol after working on rad/water pump not surprising ; so many small recesses where glycol pools and sits. It can take 50 miles and several heat cycles to just burn off residual glycol from engine bay, fender skirts etc. I would borrow another pressure tester before taking anything apart. If hose rubber flattened out at connection point, shorten hose slightly so there is new sealing surface for spring clamp. Or switch to gear clamp if you suspect a drip from a weak spring clamp. vozaday and OhareFred 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vozaday Posted April 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2020 Hopefully the final update on this issue. Coolant level appears to be staying fairly consistent for the past 1,500km. I did end up sending an oil sample to blackstone for analysis. No coolant found in the oil and for the most part everything came back normal other than silicon (I did use a tube to pull the sample out of the dipstick when it was hot) and a couple compounds used as additives. They also noticed the pinkish colour to the oil but they commented that it didn’t seem to be indicating of anything. So my plan is to start running conventional changed every 5k km rather than pushing synthetic to 8-10k km. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vozaday Posted April 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2020 On 2020-03-16 at 8:53 AM, John/Horace said: Spectra is an ok brand I’ve used them. Should be some kind of warranty on it. Fins can be brushed back a bit in a few spots without any issues, just looks bad. There are thin tubes atttatched to fins that carry the glycol, look for a kink in one of these. The older full copper rads were more durable than new plastic tank aluminum units . Smelling glycol after working on rad/water pump not surprising ; so many small recesses where glycol pools and sits. It can take 50 miles and several heat cycles to just burn off residual glycol from engine bay, fender skirts etc. I would borrow another pressure tester before taking anything apart. If hose rubber flattened out at connection point, shorten hose slightly so there is new sealing surface for spring clamp. Or switch to gear clamp if you suspect a drip from a weak spring clamp. You were correct. Smell is all but gone at this point. Must have been residual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John/Horace Posted April 9, 2020 Report Share Posted April 9, 2020 Great thanks for the update. Being proactive and cautious like you are will save you money in the long run. My son is only interested in car repairs now that he is married and has moved away . Good to get them involved at an early age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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