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Most pop up trailers don't have brakes... In most states, unless the trailer rates over 3,000 lbs GVW, brakes aren't needed, so, you'll find very few pop up trailers have brakes at all. If you are looking at a pop up that has brakes, you are more than likely looking at a gross over 3,000 lbs which is outside the tow limits of the DJ. So, in effect, yes, the DJ should have just a 4 pin plug to handle turn/stop lights; no additional wiring for brake actuators (brake controllers) and other electrical supply (12v charging for the trailer's onboard battery). There are a few trailers still out there that have surge brakes, but, they are getting rather scarce. Too much maintenance and by and large not very effective (they don't do squat if not constantly adjusted to operate correctly as the brake shoes wear) and if adjusted wrong can be worse than no brakes at all. There is no "standard" size for trailer balls (it is based on GVW of the trailer, not type or style), however, you'll find that most of the lighter trailers (utility) will have a 1 7/8" ball, but, again, that may vary. Your best bet, IMHO, is to get the "Convert-a-ball" system (http://www.amazon.com/Convert-A-Ball-902B-Stainless-Steel-Standard/dp/B0000AY9HO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1394146988&sr=8-1&keywords=convertaball+hitch). It is a post that accepts balls of different sizes; I've got all of them 1 7/8", 2" and 2 5/16" to handle any of the trailers that I may tow. However, I don't tow with the DJ...I have a RAM 2500 HO CTD to use for my towing and I'm equipped for everything including goose neck, 5th wheel and pintle You can shop around (even on Amazon) and find the kit that just has the 1 7/8" and 2" balls...cheaper than buying the 3 ball kit and you definitely won't ever have a need for the 2 5/16" ball with the DJ! I doubt if you'll find a 2" trailer rated for being DJ towable either, but, the 2" ball would be cheap insurance against going to rent a trailer and finding a 2" coupler...

I'm like jkeaton; 5 cars, 3 ATVs, 3 tractors and miscellaneous other engines (generators, log splitters, snow blowers, gas powered pressure washer, etc.). I'd spend the whole spring and fall changing oil if I did them all myself. Some like the truck (diesel; almost 3.5 gallons) can actually be cheaper at the dealership with the coupons I get in the email. I priced it out and it would cost me $77.95 to do it myself (oil at Walmart and MOPAR filter also at Walmart) that's without tax. Not to mention the hassle of hauling around some 20 gallons of waste oil to the recycle center... The last time I had the dealership do it, it was $80.95. My time and aching back are worth the $3.00 more... As the number of "toys" goes up, the "fun" of maintenance on all of them goes down... Addendum: I do, however, manage the maintenance on 99% of my "horde"...I just take advantage of the coupons on the DJ and the truck; brings the price right down, even when I use synthetics (for the DJ).

The above is spot on, but, I'll also add that if the wrong type of brake fluid was added to the master cylinder that it is also possible that the master cylinder's piston seals have deteriorated due to the wrong type of fluid eating the seals away. While you have your foot on the brake pedal, the seals are supposed to push the fluid out to the calipers. If the seals are rotting away, they allow the fluid to leak past them allowing the pedal to slowly go to the floor. One more reason to make absolutely sure, before adding fluids to your car, that you make certain that it is the proper # (DOT 1,2,3,4, etc) or viscosity (less important for engine, but, critical for differentials and on some engines, the MSD Hemi's for instance, engine oil can also be fairly critical) and type (for transmissions and coolant). Since you probably haven't added fluids to the car since getting it, it is possible that the previous owner or the car shop where you bought it topped up the master cylinder with whatever was handy thinking that the problem wouldn't be noticeable for a while... Newer cars are far less forgiving for using the wrong fluids; entire systems are designed around certain chemistries and any change from the design specs can wreck the whole system.

I had 268,000 miles on my 3.8 liter V6 in a 1996 Grand Caravan. No catch can and the throttle body was spotless. If you run the right type of oil, keep it changed and keep your PCV cleaned, the amount of vapor will do nothing to improve the performance or driveability of the modern engine. The amount of fluid in the catch can can look very deceptive; ugh! that is going in my engine. The truth of the matter is that it comes from a mist that, under most circumstances also contains gas blow-by and the mixture is actually flammable and the cooling effect of that mist in the intake system is taken into account in the design of the intake system as a whole. Taking the mist out of the system will provide no increase in performance or savings in fuel mileage to the domestic automobile engine so there has been no "uptake" in catch can installations in the domestic market. Racing yes; soccer mom no. I have no problem with catch cans... I used to build race cars and they were part and parcel of the "package" for the track. At high rpms, the engines on the track throw out huge amounts of mist and racing engines are expensive...expensive to the point that worn rings (increases blow by) exacerbate the problem and the catch can is a really good way to keep those engines in their best racing form for the longest amount of time between tear downs. I, IMHO, do feel that it is just one more maintenance point that isn't necessary in today's street cars and given the number of people that are going to extended change systems on their oils, it is a maintenance point that is likely to be ignored and if you think sucking oil mist may not be "cool", then imagine the engine that sucks down raw oil from a catch can that's been ignored... A PCV is cheap to produce and easy to clean and just as effective in the domestic street engines. Again, if you want to run a catch can, by all means do. They are another solution to crankcase vapors and a good one at that. However, in the average lifespan of the domestic automobile engines and the way that they are used and maintained, there is absolutely no reason to have one of those instead of a PCV system in proper repair and a PCV is much easier (it is customary; how many folks, if they bought your 300C would even know what a catch can is, let alone that they had to do anything with it...) for shops to handle. They are all mounted in pretty much the same place and all work the same. A PCV will also let you know it has gone bad by the way the engine behaves, not so a neglected catch can. When things are "different" or unusual, they cause problems. I had an Austin Healey with dual side draft SU carbs. Those carburetors had oil pans; one in each and each carburetor had a dipstick. Do you know how many people cussed at their British cars and the way they ran when all they needed to do was top up the oil in the carbs? Just an odd ball system that you wouldn't find on any other cars and would never even think about. Even British repair shops overlooked them frequently as the carb (SU) wasn't used on all models in any given year. If you want one, install one. Make sure you inspect it regularly (at least every oil change) and keep it clean. I'll keep my "inspect or replace PCV every 100,000 miles" system. One less thing to worry about. I've put, literally, hundreds of thousands of miles on engines with the PCV system with no detrimenal impact to the engine or the engine's performance.

Since the tire is an "emergency" temporary fix to a flat, the manufacturers can save a boat load of money by providing a "one size fits all" 16" space saver spare. The alternative, as in the "old days" was for the manufacturer to produce, store and supply steel wheels, spare tires and leave space for the various sizes of wheels in the design of the cars, during any given year in the design of the car. With the advent of the "one size fits all" space saver, the same spare on your DJ will fit the other MOPAR models also and thus MOPAR only needs one size for all of their models. Even in the "good old days", very few full sized spares came with styled wheels; they came with your basic weighs-a-ton stamped steel wheel. The space saver, saves space, saves weight (important for MPG) and manufacturing overhead. I'm just waiting for the run-flats to be perfected...then you won't even have a spare saving even more weight and cost. You'll get a flat and then have to drive the run-flat to the nearest tire shop to get it replaced...not too many years in the future. Further "down the road" will be the no-flat tire; it will never go flat or be under-inflated. They are working on that one, too. The trick will be, will we be able to afford the tech?

I don't know of a lot of people, whether they own a DJ or any other type of car, that bother to install catch cans. They are just one more point of maintenance and would perform little if any advantage to the normally aspirated engines found in most domestic automobiles. Even domestic turbos are not so fast that enough mist is generated or the taking out of the same would provide any hp or torque advantages. For general information: an oil catch can is used to condense oil mist (vapor) created by rapidly spinning components in high performance engines; turbo driven race cars or normally aspirated race cars that run at high rpms for long periods. Under those conditions, the engines create enough oil mist that if a regular PCV was installed instead, the oil mist would substantially reduce the flash point of the air-fuel mixture in the pistons. A PCV unit, installed in all cars, recycles that "mist" (what little there is in normal use) through the intake system where it is burned with a very negligible impact on ignition. If you vented the vapor hose into atmosphere (against the law), you wouldn't be able to tell the difference aside from adding to air pollution. A catch can condenses it into, you guessed it, a can that must be emptied periodically to get rid of the residue. That's a simplified explanation, but, unless you are racing your DJ and run at near red-line for hours on end, I find no reason for "most people" to ever even consider one, let alone install one. With today's modern transmissions designed to keep the engine in the <2k rpm range at cruise, a catch can isn't needed.

I live out here in the sticks of South Central Pennsylvania... Don't see many of those on our vehicles. Didn't take long for most of us to learn that if you hit a deer without one, you might be out a headlight or grill, but, if you hit a deer with one of the those brush guards installed, you're out the entire front end. It might save you from a nick or two, but, what happens if you actually get hit hard in an accident? As opposed to maybe a corner damaged, you'll be out the entire front end and it isn't too many years down the road that your new DJ will be totaled with that type of damage where it might be repairable (insurance wise) with less damage... Just a thought. Even when off roading in my Jeep (sadly gone) and my RAM 2500 CTD, I didn't/don't mount one. I'd rather do the paint work than major body work. I do, however, think they look "cool", but, like the Escalade pickup truck, they are more the "urban cowboy" type of addition (IMHO).

I have the shop manual (CD) for the 2013 Journey. I can change the engine option and when I go to the 2.0L I4 diesel I get the attached image for where the oil filter is located. I don't imagine that the engine has changed that much and it may help you some. Apparently there is a belly pan that must be removed to access the canister that the oil filter fits in. Hope the attached helps; best I could do...

I had those same wheels on my old Commander Limited (part of the "Limited" package). I initally was on the fence about them, but, after have the Commander for almost 5 years, the wheels still looked new. Bear in mind that those wheels were on a 4 wheel drive off-road vehicle that spent a fair amount of time off the pavement...one of our trips found us at an obsidian mountain (just a huge mountain of obsidian) and to get there was 27 miles through some pretty god-awful terrain... One of the nicest things I found out about them, was a friend had them on his Jeep and had banged one up against a rock while 4 wheeling. It gouged the chrome, but, it didn't look too bad. The best thing? Despite the gouge, the area around it didn't flake, chip or rust. Try that with a true chromed wheel...

There is a lot of legal stuff going on now about the chroming process and the toxicity of the chemicals and processes that release them into the environment. I was talking to a fellow that runs a restoration shop (I have a couple of antique cars) and he said it is getting harder and harder to find businesses still in the chroming business. Many are closing their doors because of the regulations and EPA requirements bankrupting them. That's one of the reasons you'll find fewer and fewer "real" chrome parts in use on anything. Remember when even toasters and wafle makers had "chrome" parts for "pizazz"? Now everything comes with polished nickel or stainless steel.... A lot of what you see now that looks like chrome isn't really chrome...it is a powder coat process that comes very close to chrome in appearance, but, isn't near as hazardous to the environment and holds up better. In the "good old days", aluminum rims became the rage because chormed rims (and bumpers) began to blister and peel within 3-5 years... Back in the "day", it was a real bummer to spend $300.00 (it was worth more then) on a set of Crager SST chromed wheels to have them turn to junk in a couple of years...

If it were that easy, every manufacturer would include a CAI as stock; they are always looking for ways to boost HP without it costing them anything and a CAI is much cheaper to manufacture than the stock airbox, plumbing and resonators. Your 6-25 HP increases are statistically insignificant (numerically to a statistician) as "background noise" and well within the standard deviation of error based on friction at the wheels, humidity and temperature along with mechanical losses and gains of the dyno itself. Like I said, I used to build cars that developed far more HP and were much more sensitive to input changes. We went so far as to make sure each piston, wrist pin and crank weighed the same (balancing) and coated the piston walls with architectural dye (blue printing) to determine ring scrub... If it were so simple (the CAI), Ford certainly wouldn't have invested the millions necessary to develop the Ecoboost turbo system. I'll quit; the CAI myth has been debunked by many ASE groups along with the above Myth Busters episode. It produces growl and that's about it. Most of the CAI units actually duct more engine compartment heat into the system (they are open and drafty as all get out on top) than the stock sealed unit that snorkles cold air from ahead of the radiator into the system that is predominately thin plastic (less of a heat transfer medium) than the heavy pipe (absorbs and holds engine bay heat) and thin stamped metal (a radiator of engine heat) that the box is made of in CAI systems. Do you honestly think that BMW, Mazda, Mercedes, etc. would pass up a means of adding 25 or more HP by leaving more expensive equipment off and substituting less expensive components? End of my involvement...it's your money to spend any way you deem appropriate.

Easy to clear that message from the EVIC: Place ignition to "ON" ; DO NOT start the car. If you have a key, just turn it to the "ON" position, if you have the keyless ignition, press the Start button without putting your foot on the brake Pump the accelerator pedal three times rapidly to the floor; it must be reasonably quick (within a few seconds) and it must go all the way to the floor all three times Done. That resets the EVIC warning.

I don't think it is the windshield being "loose"...if the seal was broken in an area, it would leak, but, wouldn't rattle. That laminated plate glass is very rigid and very heavy. Most likely you have a loose wiring harness or bracket under the headliner that, in very cold temperatures, shrinks a bit and allows a rattle. There are a lot of wires that travel all over the car under that headliner and can rattle in the right conditions. A good dealership can probably track it down, but, my WAG is something under the headliner and not the windshield, especially if it isn't leaking... Keep us posted on what you find...

Then, in the DJ, it may be a noise eliminator working in conjunction with the air box resonator to keep noise levels down. The DJ, even the R/T model, is a passenger car (CUV) and with all the UConnect features, the engineers were/are concerned with keeping noise levels down to make the "sound" better in the cabin area. The point though, still is, that removing it won't gain anything. What little restriction it has is easily compensated by the computer and computers don't "work harder"...I'm retired IT (Systems Integrator) and believe me, those CPU units in these cars are loafing. They are designed to control fuel air ratio in milliseconds and all the air in the world available to the system won't affect the ratio delivered by the computer. As I mentioned earlier, the only way you can achieve a gain in either hp or efficiency is to force more of that "perfect mixture" into the cylinders and that can only be achieved by a Roots style blower or turbo charger (that's how the Ecoboost works) and not by simply providing a bigger pipe for the air. It will only use what it needs no matter how much is available. If you want to remove it, feel free. Even if it is there for water abatement (and water being splashed at the front of your car at 70 mph can work its way into a straight snorkel) the odds of that happening are probably small in most circumstances, but, the engineers tend to try to protect against even small hazards if they know about them in advance. Most likely it is there primarily for noise abatement and all you'll do is add more noise to the operation of your DJ. I like mine quiet, so, I'll leave mine on; but, that's just me. I'm old enough to be past the "yahoo, listen to me" noise in my cars if it doesn't provide any performance improvement. YMMV

Yes, indeed, lemons can and do come from all the manufacturers of vehicles (and almost everything else). It is "Murphy" (of Murphy's Law) at his finest. Actually, I was tempted to go with another Hemi Jeep, but, the wife gave me one of those "looks" and, even I was tired of the <15 mpg average that we were getting. We used to tow an RV with it, but, we moved up to a big 5th wheel and I have a '11 RAM 2500 LongHorn HO CTD to tow with, so we really didn't need the big engine or vehicle for towing and a smaller (the DJ actually has more enterior room than the Commander) car and engine was a better direction for us. Good luck with your new wheels, those GCs certainly are nice!

^^^ Wish they did....I'd be all over it!

I wish you luck... However, that's how I got my Journey It was a result of a "buy back" of my 2008 Jeep Commander Limited Hemi... Loved that Jeep, but, after 4 years of in the shop for a month and back for 2 days just to have the same problem come back, Chrysler made me a "buy back" offer I couldn't pass up and being "done" with Jeep for the time being, we went with the AWD R/T and haven't for a second regretted it. Here's to hoping you have better luck with your Jeep than I did with mine!

Exactly. A lot of us "old timers" built cars (yes, I built race cars in the late '60s and early '70s) and there were many things that "became legend" during those times. More air was one, but, even in those days, more air didn't do you any good until you re-jetted the carburetors or added additional carburetors to add the additional fuel to take advantage of it. To really take advantage of it, you needed to also alter the cam's duration for intake and exhaust, add a bigger exhaust system (headers, straight through pipes, low-flow mufflers, etc) to get rid of the exhaust so that you could get more air and fuel in quicker, etc. Enter the modern day computer controlled systems. You can put more air in the system, but, it won't use it due to the variable venturi effect of the throttle body. The MAP will only allow the amount air to be used such that the "perfect" air/fuel mixture is maintained. Put more fuel in the mix, the computer will retard the engine and lean the injectors until it evens out. A new cam won't even buy you anything because the computer will again control spark (firing) and fuel (injectors) to maintain its "ideal". CAI? Sure, it will make your car sound "meaner", but, no real gains in hp or mpg. CAT back exhaust? Again, more noise, the "meaner" sound, but, put it on a dyno and you've got nothing but sound effects. Anything a "shade tree" mechanic can do will do mostly zip for actual "performance"; the best improvements would be gained by turbo charging or putting a blower on it, but, that involves re-engineering the heads and block and re-programming of the computer to take advantage of the added compression ratios. I had a Jeep Commander with the Hemi and went that route just playing around. Had it dyno tested before and after. Zero change in hp at the wheels and zero change in long range fuel economy; in fact short range fuel economy suffered for awhile because "putting my foot in it" made it sound so much better...didn't go faster, it just sounded like it was. I actually, after about a year, put the stock air box and snorkel back on and re-installed the stock exhaust so that I had back the "peace and quiet" of the original Commander; without any performance enhancement the noise was irksome. I had forgotten all that I had learned building cars in the good old days. Lesson learned? Yes you can tear the stock air cleaner off and install a CAI that will sound meaner, but, require more maintenance than the stock unit for no gains except noise. You can install a CAI for the added noise and possibly incur a short lifespan on the exhaust parts, but, again, no real gains. Until and unless you do something with the computer, it will regulate the "simple changes" so that there are no changes. Start messing with the computer and you can actually destroy the engine - check some of the diesel folks and their "extreme" tuners and the FEDS have stepped in so that those tuners are now regulated or banned for emission reasons. There are some things you can do for "improvement"; those of you without the larger brakes could upgrade the rotors and calipers. Those of you that don't like the ride can experiment with various spring packages and shocks, but, over-all "performance" is governed by the computer and the computer is quite capable of changing enough parameters that anything else you do will be either no gain, or engine damaging. The engineer's of today's vehicles do everything they can to "balance" hp, comfort and efficiency (mpg) and there really are no "miracle" cures that you can add off the shelf as a "bolt on" addition.

The way engineers are focused on "quiet" nowadays, that could, indeed be the reason they are there or it could be that you just haven't run into the .2% of the reason it is there, yet. The same physics that are at work that allows the felt to keep water from being sucked in (slows the air velocity at the intake) would also keep the air's intake sound down. My Austin didn't have a quiet bone in its body, so, that wasn't the reason for them in that car LOL, but, I just wanted to issue a "caution" on arbitrarily removing things that don't to seem to have a reason for being there. With the cost of vehicles being so important to the manfacturers, they don't add things that don't have a good reason for being there. These cars are rather expensive to take much of a gamble with and I don't imagine that removing them has any benefits in performance or economy since the computer ultimately controls the amount of air that the engine uses and adjusts air/fuel ratio and speed (variable throttle bodies) accordingly. That ability is why the air filter change interval is so long now; the computer can adjust the air/fuel ratio so well that it can run quite efficiently on a partially clogged filter; 3 years or 30,000 miles now between filter changes, a far cry from the "good old days". I don't imagine a CAI unit has them, but, the CAI would be engineered to not need them...that doesn't infer that the stock air box doesn't, since from what I've been hearing, that airbox is "standard" across several versions of this engine and several models of cars with minor differences in the snorkels and piping and it may be that the DJ needs it and others don't due to snorkel design and that isn't something that a salesman or even service technician would know. There's a big difference in selling and servicing when compared to engineering systems and sub-systems. I'll wait to see what the engineers say, if one of them replies, before I start removing things without a replacement device. I wouldn't remove the air box without adding some sort of replacement, i.e., a CAI unit, so, until I find out exactly why Chrysler put that in, I'll leave it there since it doesn't hurt anything and doesn't improve anything by removing it. Ultimately though, it is your gamble and any time we gamble it is up to each of us as to whether we roll the dice or ask for cards.

Might be a little careful about removing it... I had an Austin Healey once and it had similar attachments to its dual Stromberg carbs. I was going to do away with them as they looked pretty ratty (old car), but, I knew a guy that was retired from the British Emabassy; their chief mechanic, and boy did he come in handy with that vehicle. Anyway, he said they (the felt wraps) were on the intakes to keep liquid water from being inhaled into the intakes. Turns out that the intake snorkel was level and pointed straight ahead. According to him that if following a car closely or a large splash occurred in front of the snorkels that water could enter the housing. The housing had drain holes, but, he said that it was possible that a large enough volume of water could enter and not drain rapidly enough out. The felt was used to absorb the liquid while allowing air to pass through, preventing hydraulic lock from happening in a cylinder... I haven't even looked at my DJ's intake system, I'm not interested in CAI (I've been that direction on other cars and except for the sound, there was no other gains, hp or mpg, the car's computer regulates all of the input variables and more air doesn't buy you anything as the computer will make changes to the others to keep it in "trim") and it isn't anywhere near time for a filter change, so, I'm not real sure why Chrysler put those in, but, I do know why they were on my old Austin and I'm guessing Chrysler wouldn't have gone to the expense if they didn't know something... You could probably remove it and be good to go 99.8% of the time, but, if I had to guess, Chrysler put that on there for the other .2% and hydraulic cylinder lock does some really devastating damage to the rods, crank and block. You might want to wait to see if the Chrysler Cares folks have some technical insight before removing them...

Our '13 R/T AWD is quiet. No squeaks or squealing noises (not even when we were at 10 degrees F, I didn't go out when it was -5 F). I have to make a left hand turn (all the way to the lock) at the end of our road and it is dead quiet in the cold or in the wet...

I do a fair amount of towing... My considered opinion? Don't try it. Despite what a lot of people say/think, the DJ is not a truck, is not even an SUV and it doesn't have the underpinnings or hardware necessary for that type of towing for that long of a distance. While the DJ can be equipped with a "Tow Package" (and I'm guessing yours isn't?), it is still aimed at towing small boats or utility trailers with some mulch or a dirt bike on it, not for long distance towing with a bordline overloaded vehicle and load... There are a couple of folks on this forum that tow pop-up campers, but, those are considerably lighter than your Scion and the DJ's aren't as loaded as what you are describing. I'll put a trailer hitch on my DJ, but, only to hold my bicycle rack. Any other towing is done by my RAM 2500 CTD.

I'll probably do it this spring. I traded a Hemi Commander in on my DJ and I had put one (flasher) on it. Easy mod and fairly effective, too. It caused the CHML to blink 5 times upon initial brake application and then remain lit as long as pressure was applied to the brakes. If you let off the brakes, but, got right back on them (<5 seconds) they wouldn't blink; that keeps folks behind you from getting annoyed in stop and go traffic. The CHML is a good idea, the flasher module makes it that much better, IMHO.

My '13 R/T had a dead battery one morning... Charged it up and took it to the dealer to check it out. Everything checked out just fine. Got to talking to the service manager (good friend) and we were discussing why it had gone dead. Turns out these new cars will stay "alive" if the keyfob is kept within range (I used to keep mine right by the door ~12' from the car) and as long as the car is "alive" it consumes power at an increased level while waiting for the doors to unlock or lock, remote starter to engage, etc. and can consume enough power to kill the battery. Not in a couple of days, but, within a 10 day to 2 week span. Started keeping my keys at the other end of the house and have not had a repeat episode of a dead battery. It is entirely possible that with the cold weather and if you keep the keys near the car, the same drain may have affected your vehicle in a couple of days... When the cars are shipped, they are shipped in a "transport mode" to prevent that from happening and the vehicles on most lots stay in that "transport mode" until sold so that the batteries don't go dead while on the lot. They showed me how to put it in transport mode for when we are traveling (we have an RV and travel for months at a time) so that we don't come back to a dead car, which, according to them, will happen in that 10 to 14 day window when left on its own, even when in sleep mode. Other than the transport mode, the other option is to keep it on a trickle charger. I have a bunch of the Battery Minder Plus maintainers for my other equipment and opted to use one of them hardwired to the remote battery posts in the engine bay. If you keep your keys near your car, even if you drive them every couple of days, when the weather turns this cold it might be a good idea to move the keys away further so that the electronics don't stay live for as long. Since I moved my keys further away, I've had zero problems with the battery maintaining a charge, even in this cold weather.

I have to go along with jkeaton... I live with a fair amount of snow and ice in my area, nothing like the far north, but, enough. Even 4WD vehicles get stuck and most will not venture out when the roads are "solid ice". Even tracked vehicles have limits when on "solid ice" (ask my cousin who slid an M1A1 tank into a ditch during winter training in AK; fortunately it was a training exercise for the tank recovery crews also). There comes a point when the roads are too slick to drive on. 4 wheel drive vehicles will slide unmercifully when all 4 of the wheels are on slick surfaces. The number of folks with 4WD vehicles stuck at the side of the road, thinking they were "invincible", should demonstrate that. So, I don't get where the expectation that AWD is somehow superior to 4WD or that AWD itself is "invincible" in slippery conditions. For AWD to work, at least one of the tires has to have traction; if none of the wheels can find a "bite", then you are at the mercy of ruts, momentum and physics (you will travel in a straight line until something, physically, makes you deviate from it) and if one of the 4 wheels has traction and it is in the rear and the steering wheels don't have traction, then the physics takes over. So count me in the "I don't get it" camp, too...