webslave

Actually, in the Washington, DC area they did. They not only worked on PCs, but, did network installation, including cabling (copper and fiber) and they did it all from VW Beetles with the rain gutter type racks to carry their step ladders. Tools, cabling and "parts" (jacks, wall plates, cable ends, etc.) went into special built racks that fit over where the back seat is. I'm retired IT (Systems Integration with NIH and FDA) and a head hunter tried to recruit me once, so, I looked into them once many years ago.

My sentiments on the Rving, but, don't go to one of the RV sites and try and tell them that it isn't camping! I made that statement once...must have been 3 pages of folks telling me that it was, indeed, camping using various forms of language. I've backpacked all over this great country and England and know what "camping" is. When I get out of my reclining outdoor chair, even if I am sitting around a fire (I have a fire ring at my house, too.) and go inside to my lounge chair and turn on the 32" flat screen and pop a DVD in, after adjusting the living room A/C a tad cooler while the wife whips up a snack in the kitchen and then later, mosey on upstairs to my Queen sized bed in the bedroom with a door so that the wife can continue watching television or weaving on her loom that is where the dining room would be, without disturbing me; I don't call that camping. It is RVing, or "glamping", if you must, however, if you look up the definition of "camping" in Webster's, RVing does qualify as "camping" by the strictest definition of the term. Much like calling the DJ a truck...it is all a matter of perception. Those of us with real trucks would never consider the DJ a truck, but, since the manufacturer "calls" it a truck, no matter the reason (political manuevering) and the insurance companies insure it as a truck because of that, then technically, you can call it a truck and not be wrong. If you go to the other forum, the Journey and the Caravan are, indeed, listed with the "trucks". Then again, I don't consider the Escalade to be a truck, either... If I ever see one with a load of anything (ever seen one with a load of lumber or manure or mulch or gravel?) I might, just might, rethink it. I come from the old school, I guess. If you won't put a ton of gravel or a couple of front end loader's worth of loose mulch or at least three pallets of stuff in it, it isn't a truck; if you are worried about what the inside or the bed looks like, it isn't a real truck. Real trucks get beat up doing real work. My "truck" is the Longhorn version; very plush, laser etched leather throughout, not only are the seats heated, they're cooled (I miss that in my Journey) and more electronic gizmos than I know what to do with (wish my Journey had the "park position" seats, memory recall for seat, mirrors and pedal position, too), but, I don't bat an eyelash at loading the bed up with whatever needs to be trucked somewhere and I don't clean the mud off my boots before I get in... Of course, I paid a lot more for the truck than the Journey...those extras I miss don't come free! BTW, my mom, bless her heart, maintained that "roughing it" was a Holiday Inn and anything else was simply barbaric... So... Call your DJ a truck and if you are in your RV, call it "camping"( I don't do either, my DJ is a CUV or "the car" and my Cougar is a "coach" or "RV" and we go touring or just "on a trip", not "camping")...the definition requirements are met for both, although, the definition of a vehicular truck; "Motor vehicle designed to carry freight or heavy articles" is a bit of stretch for the DJ. Using that "loose" definition for the DJ being a "truck" means that any vehicle can be a truck as they all have "trunks" with which to carry "freight". :hearseespeak:

I can appreciate your having 3 for an alarm company, but, the Geek Squad used Volkswagon Beetles...is the Beetle then a truck? No argument. I don't consider an alarm company as a valid "work" unit. It is a "job", hence it is "work", but, not on the same level as Acme Painting, Roto-Rooter, Gee-Whiz Concrete and Masonry, etc. Really, call them what ever you like; it is all a personal thing anyway. I don't go along with calling my RV a "camper" either. I can't honestly say that I camp when I'm doing it in a 4 room rolling house. In fact, my RV is one up on my house; the RV has twin A/C units, the house has zero, but, there are a lot of folks out there that insist they are "camping". When we "camped", we carried everything we needed on our backs and had to hike into where we "camped"...

What to call a vehicle has nothing to do, really, with what the insurance folks call it. If the manufacturer calls it a "truck" in their lineup, then that's what it is for the insurance company and their rate purposes. The manufacturers play a shell game with the CAFE and EPA when determining what they call a vehicle and they play "fast and loose" with the terminology. Trucks are considered outside the fleet CAFE standards and so most manufacturers do their best to have a larger percentage of vehicles fall into the truck category to improve their fleet CAFE standings. The auto manufacturers also do things to vehicle design to get classifications changed. I have a 1989 Lebaron Turbo Convertible Limited. It has a backseat that is useless, however, the backseat kept it from being considered a "sports car" and getting hit with increased penalties for fuel mileage and increased insurance rates, but, it really is a two seater sports car despite having a "back seat". I wouldn't even put children back there. Mini-vans are also considered "trucks". As long as the CAFE standards only recognize a limited number of vehicle classes, you will find cars classed as trucks, but, that doesn't make them a "truck" in the classical "work" arena. Even considering it in the same league as panel trucks is a bit erroneous. Panel trucks and delivery trucks do not have seats and carpet in their cargo area. Even the "work/business" version of the Caravan was devoid of windows, carpeting and sound deadening in its cargo area. I don't know of any business that would consider buying a Journey as a work truck... Until such time as I see fleets of Journeys with "ROTO-ROOTER" painted on their sides or ACME PLUMBING emblazoned on them, I'll consider my Journey a CUV (mostly car) and my RAM a truck, regardless of the games the manufacturers play massaging the CAFE standards for their fleet. Because some kid may use it for delivering Dominoe's Pizzas, does not, IMHO, make it a truck. BTW, I never considered my Jeep Hemi Commander a truck either...it was a marvelous SUV; an offroad vehicle, not an offroad truck. If you want to base classes on "build", then the Commander was more tank than truck B) Of course, that's just my opinion and yes, the insurance companies and the manufacturer do classify it as a truck, but, I certainly don't consider my Journey as a truck...when I go get a load of manure I take the truck, my RAM 2500, not my 7 seater AWD Journey.

My guess is that you are looking at the pressure for the spare tire... The temporary spares that vehicles come with now are usually inflated in the 50-60 psi range. Your regular tires though should be more in the 36 psi range. My RAM pickup with the Cummins Turbo Diesel requires 60 psi to support that weight, but, the Journey wouldn't come anywhere close... 2 psi over won't affect anything at all. May harshen the ride a bit, but, IMHO, you won't know the difference and it would keep the tread flatter on the road while keeping the sidewalls a bit stiffer.

I believe Progressive has a similar device. On first blush, "Hey, great! I can save some major dinero!" , but,... Where does it stop? Edited by me... I'm about sick of "people" poking, prodding and regulating how I want to live to fit some "idea" (theirs) of what is ideal. This rates right up there with that group. I had a big diatribe typed in, but, deleted it to avoid the politics :gang: As for cost...mine went down a bit with the '13 Journey replacing an '08 Jeep Hemi Commander Limited. Less than $400 / year for the Journey.

Well, I also have a truck. A "real" truck. While the DJ has some attributes of a truck; higher clearance, all-wheel drive (not 4, but, close), and lots of cargo room (although very civilized cargo room), when compared to my '11 RAM 2500 LongHorn HO CTD 4x4, the DJ is definitely more "car" than "truck" and most decidedly falls into the CUV class. I had an SUV; Jeep Hemi Commander Limited (in fact I got the Journey as a replacement for the Commander)...that's an SUV; tow rating of 7800 lbs., full time "rock climbing" 4 wheel drive and the weight and frame to handle any terrain and keep going. I was sorry to see it go, but, with the RAM added to the stable to tow the 5er, it was an unnecessary gas hog and the DJ is much better at the fuel pumps. I, originally, thought it was smaller too, but, it is actually 2 in longer, although it is about 6 in. less in height, than the Commander and has much more usable storage space than the Commander. I was a little leery of losing the full time 4 wheel drive (marvelous in the snow), but, this past winter I was pleasantly surprised at how nimble and sure footed the Journey's AWD was. Not the "rock hound" that the Commander was, but, more than acceptable for my intentions (I'm getting too old for that kind of off-roading anyway the RAM can do the off-roading that I do now; gave up my motorcycles,too - old age bites!)

I've been RVing for years and that video makes the "circuit" on the forums at least once a year. While "cool", it doesn't really have a whole lot of space inside and most of us that haul a 5th wheel, like our space...as indicated in my profile picture and my 5er is on the small side at 34' 7" and ~11,000 lbs! We like them big in this country and in Europe (where that video originated) they like them even smaller than the 5th wheel styled trailer shown in the video. When we were in England we were amazed at their small "caravans" (RVs)...our back packing tent had more space than some of them! The only thing comparable in this country would be the teardrop style trailers...very small, no 5th wheel styled hitch, they are hitch pulled, but, light enough to be moved around by hand. I'll keep my "biggie" and pay the fuel bills, at least for the time being...I get 10.5 to 11.5 mpg pulling my Cougar and don't complain as I lay back in my recliner and watch the 32" flat screen before going to my queen sized bed to sleep with twin A/C units to keep me cool on those hot nights! But, yeah, the 360 degree turn is very enviable! As the country song goes, with mine, "Give me 40 acres and I'll turn this rig around!"

Have to agree with DodgeCares... Not an apples to apples comparison. The VW Touareg is a purpose built vehicle aimed at the Jeep GC, Range Rover, etc. While it does, in fact, have a similar 6 cylinder engine, that is about where the similarities end. Much heavier frame, the "AWD" that is in that vehicle is more similar to the Jeeps Full Time Quadratrac I or II system than the Journey's AWD system that spends most of its time in FWD mode (the Touareg stays in full time four wheel aided drive). You could also compare the Range Rover to the Journey or the BMW X series...both have V6 models that are rated much higher towing, but, again they are high priced, purpose built vehicles and not economical people movers. If you want towing capacity with a Pentastar, you could always "trade up" to the Durango...6200 lbs. with the Pentastar and 7400 lbs. with the Hemi. All of the above vehicles, Mopar or other, are considered SUVs and are built "heavy duty", whether V6 or V8, and reflect the towing ability of a "heavy duty" SUV type vehicle. The Journey is CUV (crossover utility vehicle) and is basically a car with some SUV enhancements (ground clearance and AWD for the most part), but, far from being a heavy duty SUV.

I looked at my build sheet to see if it denoted anything about the "High Performance Suspension" as to parts. Unfortunately, it is just a build code, SDJS, and doesn't provide a breakdown of the components. I do have, in the "Optional Equipment" category, special codes for the springs at all four corners, but, I believe that they are a result of the 7 passenger configuration and are added to beef up the gross vehicle weight capacity to make up for the additional weight of the third row hardware. From test drives, prior to our ordering our AWD R/T, the only noticeable difference between the "Performance" and "High Performance", to me, was the flatness of cornering. Ride comfort and spring rates seemed to be, subjectively, the same, however, the "High Performance" package cornered noticeably flatter. That would indicate to me that the primary difference would lie in the roll bars...beefier roll bars, without changing anything else, would better control body roll while leaving the "ride" quality virtually unchanged, which is the impression I got, seat of pants, in driving each; Touring (softer springs) vs. Performance (stiffer springs) vs. High Performance (same stiffer springs, but, beefier sway/roll bars). That was my "seat of the pants" impression. I must admit that I've only owned three cars that cornered as flat; a '66 Chevelle that I modified for racing (gone), a '69 Austin Healey (gone) and my '89 Turbo Le Baron Limited convertible (still have). For a "people mover", it has the suspension, and with the 3.6 VVT engine, the guts, to "boogie" and on the twisty roads going to town (I live in the boonies), that suspension is a pure joy to drive, for its weight, it really sticks in the corners with no roll or the feel that the inside is going to lift out and give me under-steer.

I don't have any pictures, but, I got the WeatherTech system. All three rows and the back cargo area. In fact, I've only gotten WeatherTech goodies, except for the wheel spats; mats, cargo area protector, window visors and hood protector. If I get a chance, I'll try and take some pictures, but, you can see what most of them look like on the WeatherTech site...

I have the 2013 R/T AWD... Brakes are superb (so far, 4K+ miles), in fact, just a tad too much. I'm not complaining, but, if I drive the truck for a long period, or we just don't go anywhere for a while (retired and living in the boonies) and I get in the Journey, the first few stops, until I get reaccustomed to the feel, I tend to stand the car on its nose...very good brakes, indeed, at least on mine! I don't know how the new brakes are distributed down the model chain, but, the '13 R/T's look positively huge (front) and that's even on the 19' wheels.

Not to dampen the enthusiasm any, but, bear in mind that the air/fuel mixture is computer controlled along with engine timing and valve timing. I put CAI and CAT back systems on my Hemi Jeep. Liked the sound, however, tests before and after showed no true change in either acceleration or mileage. The computer takes whatever air it is getting and adjusts the mixture, engine timing and valve timing and adjusts it "on the fly" to yield optimum output of the engine and a CAI doesn't have any "blower" or "turbo" effect (physically forcing more air/fuel into the cylinders) and thusly doesn't really change throttle response or mileage. I used my OBD II computer (reads real time/on the go data) to test the Jeep both before and after. The "perceived" benefits were based on the sound...the CAI sounds great and the CAT back really amplified the perception that I was going faster, quicker and that my mpg should then benefit from the effort. Unless you alter the engine's computer algorithms to compensate for increased air flow and less exhaust pressure, the computer will only use what it needs to satisfy its programming. That's just the way the system works. Even in the "dinosaur" cars I grew up with, if I added CAI and straight through exhaust (no CAT converters in those days), we didn't see any real improvements until we changed the jets in the carburetor and added a cam to change the valve timing along with a more aggressive spring pack on the distributor to change engine timing. The CAI and CAT back are just perception changers...you'll think (even swear) that it goes faster, quicker and gets better mileage, but, it actually doesn't and with my Jeep, I found that my mileage actually went down over the long haul because I really, really liked the sound and found myself putting more "foot into it" than before just to listen to it... Real world changes? Nada, not as long as the computer controls the engine, but, ah...the sound. :dreamy: As mentioned above, I would definitely get the pre-filter ( a fine mesh bag that is shaped like the filter with elastic around the edge) as it will help keep the main filter clean of the "big stuff" and you'll get even better sound by building a box around the filter so that it doesn't draw as much warm air off the engine (won't provide any additional "performance", but, provides a more stable air supply) and provides an "echo chamber" for the cool sound.

Gotcha... I had gotten the impression that it was "standard" because all of the Journeys (2012) on my dealer's lot had them, but, they all had power seats and remote start also... That explains it. I thought the storage area was kind of gimicky at first, but, now that we have it, we use it all the time. We keep our "cloth shopping bags" in there. When we go to a store, they are "handy" and easy to get to when we need them, but, out of the way when we don't. That's why I like these forums...learn something new everyday!

Really? I'm not doubting you, but, I was under the impression that it was standard on the Journeys... Is it only "standard" on the '13's? I didn't think it was an option, like the bins in the floor in the middle row, I thought all Journeys came with it...?

As biohazard said... I'm one of those "pseudo" experts. I've probably been towing things for longer than you have been alive and I've towed everything from a 4x8 utility trailer, right on up to my current 11,600 lb. 5the wheel and that includes every kind of cargo from bricks, boats, tractors and RVs; bumper pull, goose neck and 5th wheel. Never, have I exceeded the manufacturer's gross combined vehicle weight limits, nor their axle limits, nor their payload limits. Been at the ragged edge? Yes, but, never over and those few times were nerve wracking enough. Those limits are there for a lot of reasons. Whether your salesman lied, whether he was mistaken (cars change a lot from model year to model year and I've always been amazed that some know as much as they do, while others may not be able to remember all the changes; I don't always assume the salesman is going to "lie" to me; he, himself may not know), you are now aware of the "limits" and what he said has no bearing on whether the car will sustain damage, whether you kill everyone in the car, or whether you kill someone else that just happens to be in your way when the rear end drops out of your car, your brakes fail going down a mountain or the front end suspension prevents you from steering because it collapsed. Sorry you feel that way, but, I'm equally glad I don't live near you or am likely to be anywhere where you might be towing grossly overloaded. If you don't think accidents happen from overloading, peruse the internet...there are plenty of examples that show your kind of thinking.

If your car didn't come with them as part of a package or ordered option, then, yes you would need the codes... Your car won't know it has them until the appropriate code is provided to the onboard computer (part of the VIN as stored in the BCM) which will then allow power to them and have them turn off when the highbeams are on or come automatically with the headlights. You could add them, power straight from the battery (with a fuse in the line) and then rig a seperate switch (preferably through a relay) and then run them off that seperate switch, but, you won't have the "as stock" integration provided by the car's CANBus systems. That's the way we did it (ancient old school) back in the "pre computerized" days of automobiles...

I would guess not. Unfortunately, the Journey is neither a "hot seller" nor a youth market "blingmobile". Things like headlight and tail light assemblies have to be DOT approved (that's US, I'm sure our Canadian neighbors have a similar agency) and that takes time and money to make prototypes, do the testing, apply for certification, provide samples for DOT testing, time for the testing, etc... Unless the developer feels there is a large enough market to pay for such an investment in time, money, and materials they don't bother with the development. I ran into the same thing with the Jeep Commander. Plenty of mods for things that aren't regulated (visors, deflectors, roof racks, tow hooks, etc.), but, precious little of things that needed government intrusion, I mean approval... That's why there are so many that are inclined to push the legality of "converting" non-HID designed headlights into HID glare boxes. There, again, are specific design considerations for proper HID construction regarding glare, light out put, cut-off, etc. and the engineering for a properly designed HID headlight is even more extensive than tail lights, the aftermarket for those is limited to high volume sales models due to their complexity of design. If you are looking for the popular "Euro" style clear lensed tail light assemblies, you may have a long wait, if they are ever developed. You can make your LED conversion of existing incandescent lights (make sure you match LED color to lens color for brightness), but, I have to warn you that you may also be skirting a DOT legality. If you look (research) LED tail lights, you will find that the red lens for a tail light is actually has a refractory difference than those made for incandescent bulbs...you may find that the conversion may have a lot of "bling" from directly behind, but, the angular cut-off may make them invisible from off-angle viewing, a considerable safety issue. Just one of the LED light output peculiarities...it is very linear from the surface of the LED, very little off-axis light output. That's what the little clear domes on some of the LEDs is for, to try and improve off-axis light output. Just a safety warning if you go that route...bling at the cost of your personal safety is not worth it in my book... And, yep, I, too, am in that group that really likes the LEDs on my 2013!

He shouldn't charge much if anything (I've bought a boat load of vehicles over the years at mine and they don't charge me at all for a lot of this sort of thing). I would install it first and see if you actually need to see him at all. It may be possible that the CANBus is, in the case of fog lights, "self-sensing" and may detect their addition automatically and make the additional changes in their behaviour without needed dealer interaction. I'm only guessing that the dealer might have to make a change to the VIN, since the Fog Lights have their own seperate option code. The CANBus is the MOPAR iteration of the OBD II computer system used on their cars that tie all the individual computer modules together into a cohesive "control" environment for all the different areas of your car. There are entertainment modules, engine modules, brake modules, transmission modules, options modules, etc. and they all need to communicate with each other in order to vary the operation of their "parts"...the CANBus is the pathway for that communication and the modules themselves. Controller Area Network bus...

You can't pull the strap from under the seat (it won't be pulling in the proper direction which is "up" from above the seat). There is a plastic tab that is probably in front of the strap that is hanging down, go behind the strap, push the plastic tab while lifting the seat. That should allow the seat to raise. Make sure, when you close the seat base, that the pull tab is sticking up and is visible between the seat base and the seat back's forward face.

Yes you can...there is a whole thread devoted to the "how" of doing it: http://www.dodgejourneyforum.com/topic/2760-daytime-running-lights-activated/page-4 Basically: "Dealership added the LMK code. It wasn't listed on the "accepted list" of option codes, so, the first group (sales) that he (Service Manager) said it couldn't be done. He had contacted them before I even picked the car up as I had told them I wanted the DRLs (thanks to them trying) and based on what he was told he thought it was a dead issue. Told him of the postings on the forum and he contacted the service group out of Pittsburgh. They managed to get the code added despite it not appearing to be a "valid" listing for my year, model and country of origin codes. The next problem occurred when they attempted to turn them on through the TIPM...turns out that the "on/off" software switch for the car's systems isn't in the TIPM; the BCM (body control module) had to be updated with the new VIN information (that now included the LMK code as an option on the car) and viola! DRLs that work as advertised and are controlled now through the UConnect system in the car (I can control whether they are on or off with the car's UConnect system)." Easy enough to do (don't get anyone started on why it is rediculously hard to get accomplished...) The above is what my dealer eventually did to get them working. I won't bore you with all the hoops and attempts to figure out the "how" of the above...

The car doesn't know what the fuel's octane is...it just sets the timing to where the engine is just short of pinging. Octane varies the resistance to pinging (the higher the octane, the harder it is to ignite, the less likely it is to ping; that's why with modern computer control, it does no good to put higher octane in the vehicle than what the designers built it for and if the car runs fine on low ocatane, the engine will adjust to use it and you'll pocket the price difference). It doesn't know what the octane is, it just knows when the ping starts and it adjusts the mixture and timing accordingly. Oil, is oil. There isn't a way to determine lubricity (at least not an easy, cheaply applied way) for the car's computer to change an interval. Most auto makers, don't make a distinguishing point on when to change based on the type of oil used. The owner's manual doesn't say change at x miles if Dino, but, go xx miles if Synthetic. It says in the manual or, via the computer, to change "now" based on run times, # of stops, idle time, vehicle load, etc (duty cycle). That's the most reliable basis for the company to determine when to change the oil, regardless of the oil type to protect the engine. Their aim is to protect the engineering investment and the longevity of the engine (both critical aspects of a buyer's opinion of the car), so, their "ideal" is change frequently. Fresh oil, regardless of the type, Dino, Synth or a mix, is best for engine longevity. Most of us though, temper that with what we feel is "best" based on economy of changes. Short of an oil analysis (which I use), it is "best" if you take the computer's word for when it needs to be changed. There is no hard and fast rule about when to change it. Folks can say "I'm using N brand synthetic and I can go 13,000 miles before changing!", but, short of an analysis of the old oil, they are just guessing and that "guess" could cost them an engine. I don't hold to the old notion of 3,000 mile changes, either, so don't get me wrong... Engine technology and oil technology has changed greatly and intervals can be extended without fear of damaging the engine, but, the length that they can be extended is still "guesswork", and I'll wager the computer is probably closer to the truth than a "guess" by a synthetic oil company's advertising. Oil isn't cheap, whether Dino or Synthetic, but, today's engines aren't either (I can remember the $250 V-8 short block in the crate...). I would spend the money on the oil (consider it an investment) and save the engine. When the oil light comes on, I'll change it (unless the analysis says different) and I don't say "I just changed it 3500 miles ago, it can't be shot already!" (especially in the truck when I'm towing), because, I don't know for a fact that maybe I've been harder on the oil than I thought... Edit for glaring grammar (I'm sure there is still more...)...

I've got 3832 miles on mine and, as of now, the "change oil" indicator has not come on. I suspect, that for most of us, the Journey is used in the "normal" pattern as anticipated by the programmer's with Dodge and that once a driving routine is "settled in", it won't change or it won't change much. We own rather sedate people movers and most of the driving is the same, over a given time period, so the algorythms wouldn't change the distance very much. My truck, on the other hand, shows a wide variance when it calculates the oil change is due; most of the time it just sits with the occaisional hauling required around the homestead, but, if I'm towing my RV (11,600 lbs) it will show a wide variance of when it comes on, as little as 3800 miles if I'm towing a lot in the Rockies, or as much as 6500 miles towing in the Heartland. Around town, it doesn't normally come on at all (I don't drive enough around town to rack up the mileage necessary before I'm off towing the RV again). Since most of us have a "routine" usage for our Journeys, I would suspect most folks to have a fairly set pattern for when their oil would be calculated to needing a change. That distance, though, could vary a great deal based on what our "normal" duty cycle would be. Here in the "country", there isn't much stop and go driving, it is usually a fairly constant 45-55 mph until we get to town (17 miles away) and that town has two stop lights and "main street" (where the businesses are) is only about 6 blocks long. If I need major shopping, we are talking about 1-2 hours away and mostly all highway driving. I would expect my interval to be longer, than say, someone that lived in town or the suburbs and had to deal with much more of the stop and go type driving or the short trips involved with taking kids to ballgames, school, doctors, etc. (our youngest is 42 years old; he's on his own for getting places!).

Ditto here.... It (the chrome looks really good with the chrome surround on the grill, but, having an R/T, mine is body colored (Storm Gray) and the chrome deflector would be the only bit of bling on the front; felt it would look odd. I wish the smoked deflector came in two shades of "smoke" like the window deflectors do...the light gray smoke almost blends in perfectly with the color of the car, but, the light smoke, apparently, is only available on the window visors. That chrome, though, does look sharp on the front end of your Journey!!

I am going to guess that the dealer will have to become involved at some point. The CANBus controls whether the fog lights are on with the high beams (they shouldn't be) or not. I'm also going to guess that this is controlled, like the DRLs, by a code that specifies to the vehicle's computer that it has fog lights and how the computer should behave, so it isn't just a simple power on / power off operation controlled by a hardwired switch. The code on my '13 R/T is LNJS for the US build indicating that fog lights are installed. I would assume that the kit comes complete with whatever hardware would be required (relays, new headlight switch, etc.) but, I would think the dealer would have to "enable" them on the CANBus to have them works like the stock units. In the "old days", you just hardwired them in (direct to the battery with a fuse and an inside switch) and I suppose you could do the same. On today's computer controlled cars, more and more devices are "tied" together through the onboard circuitry and like other computers, there is an "installation" process that the dealer does that enables the onboard computer to recongize the device and control it properly. Like the DRLs, it involves letting the system know, first, that the device is installed and that's done with VIN codes with linked device/option codes for that vehicle. Once the car knows it has them, the computer will know what to do...if it doesn't know it has them, it won't behave correctly.