Eweaver915 Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 Ok guys n gals, car has been a workhorse, not too many issues other than plugs and now she's getting cranky. Wife was on the highway last night when this all started and she really isnt giving me any details other than steering got hard and engine died. Ok so i went to pick car up, hooked up scanner and got a bunch of codes for the crank sensor. Out of range, variation and something else. Car started and idled fine though, so i cleared codes and limped home. Started off good but mil started flashing and occasionally would go solid, less than 2 miles total and 10mph all the way. This morning i swapped the crank sensor and started it up, starts easy and idles good at first, test drive i get flash and solid p0301. No other codes. Swapped 1 and 2 coils, no change. Swapped 1 and 4 plugs, no change. Swapped 1 and 2 injectors, no change. Still just p0301 but if i try to drive within 100 yards i get flash and runs like crap. Where should i start my search? I have an innova scanner that can log and show freeze frame pid data and tools i need, but the p0301 not moving after swapping parts between cyliders has me puzzled. Planning on doing compression test next to see what i have inside, but as plug actually looks good and has no fuel smell at all i am doubting an internal issue. Do you guys think one of the cam sensors might be bad and could possibly be sending funky signals to tge pcm? Or heaven forbid a jumped timing belt (dealt with that on an old neon 2.0, scrapped instead of fixing it)? Welcome some expert insight here, and i have no problems pulling and posting PID info if it will help. Thanks, Erix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryl Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 Fuel pump going bad? dhh3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eweaver915 Posted May 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 Does this car have a pressure sensor for the mil if it gets low fuel pressure? I have been leaning towards fuel pressure or cat converter since it idles fine, just bucks when try to drive it. Had a wierd misfire/stumble last yr because plugs were going out, of course wife didnt say anything for a month or so, thinking that may contribute to fouling the cat. 2late4u and dhh3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eweaver915 Posted May 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 The thing that i kept coming back to with fuel pump was that its specific p0301 i figure fuel pressure would give me 0300 or at least multiple cylinders. The more i play with it the more im leaning towards the pcm sensing something and going into limp rather than mechanical problem. dhh3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bramfrank Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 I still think it is likely to be bad gas. jkeaton 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty256 Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 (edited) wiring to either the coil pack for number one or the injector for number one would be my next choice to check.. cleaned the connectors and check to see if you are indeed getting a proper signal to both the coil pack and injector, follow it back you might have had a critter chewing on wires or maybe a wire from the injector or coil pack is frayed and grounding out or losing connection. also wires and connectors to the crank sensor or the new crank sensor is not good . no timing belt on this little motor just a timing chain .. Edited May 25, 2016 by Dusty256 dhh3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eweaver915 Posted May 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 Maybe onto something, im gonna ask wife but pretty sure she filled tank from empty just before all of this. Thank god this one doesnt have a timing belt, if i am getting pretty steady rpm reading through the scanner and no wierd jumps you still think it could be bad crank sensor? Might try another one, since it didnt seem to change anything. I have a noid light for the injector but is there anything similar for the coil? Thanks a million guys. dhh3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eweaver915 Posted May 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 Noid says injector is getting juice and when its sputtering and shaking if i pull the 1 coil pack connector off it gets much worse. Can also feel injector tapping with my finger while running so i think its on to new plugs and compression test right now. Its gotta be something electrical thats breaking contact once warm, idleing it is fine but once it gets warm i get 0301 pending then if i rev it the code is set. dhh3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty256 Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 coil packs could be breaking down under heat or under load. dhh3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eweaver915 Posted May 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 Thats what i had thought dusty, but its only cylinder 1, no others. I just finished compression test, 150 on all 4 cylinders. Put new plugs in as well, it seems to run fine until i rev to 3000. Started shaking after a long idle, confirmed i have no fire on 1, pulled coil connector, no change, pulled injector plug, no change. I could feel the injector clicking once reconnected but no change in how running. Looked over wiring, all still covered and taped exactly how it came from factory so i dont think i have shorts there, dont wanna open the loom until last resort. Wife going to get another crank sensor right now, i been reading too much onthem being bad new from the box for my comfort. dhh3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eweaver915 Posted May 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 And dusty, i have moved same coil over 3 cylinders now, always cylinder 1 misfire. I would doubt carbon or valve issues as i have good compression. dhh3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty256 Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 that's strange .. seems like it would move with the coils . I would take the sensor back and try a new one. dhh3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eweaver915 Posted May 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 Does anyone know where i can find an engine wiring diagram for this? Im feeling like its going to be fault in the injector wiring. Swapping them around i can feel it clicking but nowhere near as hard as the others. dhh3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eweaver915 Posted May 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 What i was thinking dusty, tried another sensor, no change. Im getting worried uts going to be a pcm issue, as the injectors all appear to go straight into it. dhh3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eweaver915 Posted May 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 Update. Fuel pressure is pretty solid at 55 psi between rail and supply, used 5/16 like from quick connect to rail. Needle was getting jumpy when it started sputtering, maybe 1-2 psi jumps but def happens with the feel of the miss. Got it to start missing and quickly pulled injector plug, noid light says no pulse when it stumbles. So aside from wiring, am i looking at anything else besides pcm? dhh3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeaton Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 Are you still on the tank of gas that started all this? dhh3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eweaver915 Posted May 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2016 Pumped tank till fuel pump quit pumping, filled halfway, no change. dhh3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty256 Posted May 27, 2016 Report Share Posted May 27, 2016 man this is a strange problem , kind of exhausted any ideas I have ... dhh3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eweaver915 Posted May 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2016 (edited) Spent 300 on a scope, cam and crank sensors working correctly, unless its a failsafe in the pcm then the pcm is faulty. Gonna hook it to the dodge house, ill post back with what they say. Edited May 28, 2016 by Eweaver915 dhh3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty256 Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 any up dates on this problem , courious as to what the problem was dhh3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eweaver915 Posted June 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 Sorry it took so long to reply. Dodge had it for little over a week here, just got it back Wednesday. They replaced 1 o ring on an injector, was seeping fuel (i tore it when swapping injectors around). I told them if they would just diagnose it then i would fix it myself, but due to insurance they could not work on it inside the shop knowing it was leaking fuel so i had them change it. Now comes the interesting part, the tech couldnt find a reason why it would suddenly act up. He checked everything i had done and no problems, they called to say they were still working on it but couldnt find anything wrong. Car was up for the WIN module recall (i had the paperwork but have been putting it off) so he went ahead and did the recall, reflashed the PCM for it and problem gone. It had to have been something wonky in the pcm, but it was not replaced, only flashed. Grand total, 110 labor for injector o ring, 9 dollars for o ring. WIN module, 2 new keys and the pcm flash were all taken care of by recall, at no cost. Do not know if the recall items caused the symptoms or if it was a glitch in the pcm, but my wife is happy to have car back, im happy it was under 130 after tax, and we are both happy with our local dodge dealership. Stand up guys, no hassle and im regaining some faith in car dealerships (had one of the plagued, 6.0 ford diesels before and lost all faith in ford dealershipS). dhh3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty256 Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 that's good , funny with the labor when the injector is so easy to pull out . must of been a glitch in the memory of the Pcm .. I am taking mine in for the win recall but first I want to do so maintenance items before hand. don't. trust the dealership here because he said to do the recall they would need the car for 4 days to inspect it before hand... it's supposed to be a simple 1 to 2 hour replacement and ref lash . dhh3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eweaver915 Posted June 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 I understand the whole not trusting the dealer on those things. My brother took his nissan in for 2 recalls, was told car needed 1600 in work to get it in shape to do recall. Needless to say he sold it and handed the recall notice to the new owner. I was going to do the injector orings myself before i took it to the dealer but parts store didnt have them in stock and i was about ready to blow a fuse troubleshooting it so just let them deal with it. Normally dont worry much about cars being down a bit but my wife proved to be my motivation here. dhh3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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