Crappy Dodge Journey Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Im from Toronto Ontario. Back in April I bought a brand new 2011 Dodge Journey SXT . At the time i didnt notice it because when i got in for the test drive the EVIC was already set to KM/H. On delivery day i was informed by the dealer that they had sold my Journey and got me another one, no big deal a few extra features. On the drive home took it back to Ontario Chrysler and told them that everytime I turn the car off and restart it the EVIC defaults back to MPH. They said no fix as of yet and to just deal with it. At that same time i raised concerns over a hard shift from 2nd gear to 3rd gear. They told me "Thats normal under break in conditions." I said sure maybe your right. Here I am on November 14th driving along and in the middle of a left hand turn i get a hard shift from 2nd to 3rd and the "ETC" light and engine light comes on. The thing loses all power and almost stalls in the middle of the intersection. Take it to the dealer around the corner and they scan it and 7 different fault codes come up. They decide to change 2 cam phazers, 4 valves a couple pistons and seals. Take the car home 2 days later start it up the next morning and on the drive to work.... Yup you guessed it same thing happens again. Take it back to the dealer on the 17th and they tell me chrysler said not to give the vehicle back until its perfect. They changed the same parts again and some o rings and the service advisor drove the car home and he had to have it towed back to the dealer for the same thing. Today is the 29th November and they are trying to change the PCM. They are shooting in the dark now. Contacted Chrysler Canada Customer Service or should I say Lack of and Explained my Concern to see what they could do in regards to my dilemma. Good ole Katy (KT35) asks what id like. I told her well this is something i complained about days after i bought it and now 16000km later here we are. I would like for you to buy it back or put me in another vehicle please. Shes says " Chrysler has a NO BUY BACK policy." So i ask what can you do to help me out I dont want this truck its brand new and no good. Nothing she says what am i supposed to do. Huh i thought you were customer service? She says ive taken your concern down and it will be reviewed, I said great and then someone will contact me with a solution? She says no! So why review it? This whole company is a joke and its no wonder they needed a bailout. Its only a matter of time before they need another one. What am i to do? I asked if there is someone above her i can speak to she said no! If shes the last line then this company is toast! A friend bought an 2010 F150 and had a tranny proplem then couldnt fix in 2 weeks. Ford Canada got in contact with him and told him they would put him in a brand new 2011 F150 with all the features he had and more for the same price! Now thats customer service. The dealer went above and beyond for him. Sorry about the length but i have no idea what else i can do other then court or camvap. Has anyone else had something similar with their Journey? journeysxt2014 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bramfrank Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I had a friend who convinced the manufacturer of his motorcycle to replace when an engine problem developed in the first week or so of ownership it and I have personally forced another motorcycle manufacturer into generating a worldwide recall for several years' worth of production for a defect that, to this day they claim does not exist. It takes a lot to get an auto manufacturer to pony up and buy back your car - and we don't have lemon laws up here. Let's start by looking at your issues: The metric/US delivery issue is one I would look at with suspicion - it points to a wrongly flashed BCM - does the odometer read out in miles or in kms? I would expect the odometer to follow the default EVIC display setting and if it reads in miles then they have sold you what is technically an illegal vehicle. As to 'living with it' (assuming it reads in kms)? I'd have handed it back to them as unrepairable when they said that there was no solution then and there. However you have chosen to accept the problem, so unfortunately have no basis for a claim. I suspect that the hard shift & stall issue will likely turn out to be a wiring problem or bad connector on the BCM or one of the other computers scattered around the vehicle - you just don't get '7 codes' at once that recur after parts have been replaced - these guys are just scatter-shotting the repairs. Now I am not a car mechanic (and these days it takes a lot more than being able to handle a wrench to debug a car). I've been doing advanced wide area wireless network sales and design for international public safety and other mission-critical applications in addition to operating a small alarm/telecom company - being able to make sense out of an issue that can have hundreds of potential sources is one of my specialties - you need to be a bit like 'House MD' to keep from wasting parts, time and lots of money just changing bits until the vehicle is running properly again. Many dealers don't have that aptitude. And this is one of the major reasons I want to get my extended warranty group buy organised and purchased. Going to court isn't going to be pretty. You will not be able to use small claims because you will sue for the value of the vehicle - and even then, the problem is to prove monetary damages, and the truck isn't depreciated to zero in any case. If you were renting a vehicle because yours was undriveable, then you might be able to recover the rental fees. Beyond this, you are looking at Superior Court and that's going to cost more than the issue is worth. Having said that, I suggest that you may have two options: The most desirable solution for you would seem to be to have Chrysler subsidise the trade-in of your truck against a new one - the dealer would give you the book value of a six month old unit with 16K kilometers and Chrysler would kick in the difference (including sales taxes if you can get them to). This isn't going to be an easy option to get them to agree with, but it might be able to be done. However if I were Chrysler I would be tying that to your purchasing another unit from the same product group. Yes, I know that this is pretty much the same as having them replace the truck, however since they claim that the vehicle is repaired, the dealer can take it in as a trade and their hands look somewhat clean. They will not have done a buy back and they MIGHT find this an acceptable solution if you are a careful negotiator and keep your cool. Be aware, however that they can safely (from a legal perspective) insist that you pay a portion of the trade-up because you will have driven the vehicle 16K km in 6 months, which is more than the anticipated average mileage - they presume about 20K km per year. If they do and if you refuse you will have a hard time trying to sue them. A perhaps more achievable solution might be to try and have the engine replaced as a whole - it is clear that having opened it up twice (pistons . . . really?) to replace parts that were not defective, the motor will never be quite the same again (actually it will, but YOU don't think so) . . . . . . They need to replace the BCM too. If the problem persists then they will need to replace the wiring harness - and good luck to them. That was what I forced Yamaha to do for the machine I and about 30,000 others ride . . . . for a bike it ain't all that simple. But the harness on a motorcycle is all in one small space and fairly exposed, so they can do it in a few hours. . For a car . . . I don't know.. If you keep the vehicle you'll also want to have them kick in with an extended special warranty to cover the power train and electrics (and I believe that the problem is most likely electrical based on the little bit of information you've provided). Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bramfrank Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I could edit the previous post or I could simply post another below it. I don't like the 'edited' banner, so another post it will be: Since your vehicle is prone to stalling out in traffic, you should head over to the Industry Canada web site and file a defect report and make sure you specify that there was a riosk of accident resulting from an series of unanticipated engine stalls and that the manufactrer has replaced numerous parts in a failed attempt to diagnose (let alone correct) the problem. Here is the link: https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/7/PCDB-BDPP/fc-cp.aspx?lang=eng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crappy Dodge Journey Posted November 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Thanks for your information. As i was about to type a big long speil about this car again i got a call back from the dealer. The computer change didnt work and now Chrysler Canada has ordered the dealer to change the entire fuse panel. However its back ordered maybe ill see this thing in 5 years. Next step sounds exactly like what your said ...the wireing. At this point Chrysler Canada has sunk more money into this car than its worth. Labour and parts its nuts. Anyways in Canada we have CAMVAP and ive been in contact with them and they are binding abitration for auto manufacturers in canada and vehicles with less than 365 days and under 50000km are eligible for a comeplete and full buy back if ordered to do so. Thats my only option now. The process takes about 70 days from start to finish. Its funny on CAMVAP's website the have statistics on awards for all the manufactures and Chrysler had the highest percentage of buy backs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crappy Dodge Journey Posted December 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 ****UPDATE**** Got a call from my Dealerships service manager telling me they are no longer trying to diagnose the problem with my Journey as they can not come up with a good reason as to why my vehicle and behaving the way it is. He informed me that the computer and fuse box options are Chrysler engineering ideas and cant understand how that would fix the problem. He told me the only repairs they are instructed to do will come from Chrysler engineering and only them and he was very sorry about the situation. The dealer has gone above and beyond all they had to do to keep me happy and i have no gripe with those guys. Chrysler customer service however is a total joke. The dealer is way better at helping the customer out then CCS could ever be. A senior rep contacted me and repeated everything the Service manager did. I told her i already know this so what is it she can do for me. "Chrysler has a no buy back no return policy and we are commited to fixing the problem." Whats the problem I asked her then? How ling is a reasonable amount of time to fix a new vehicle? 3 weeks, 3 moths, 5 years when the warranty runs out? Im making payments on a car i cant drive! She tells me you have to talk to the dealer about it. I told her that she had just told me that the dealer was instructed to only do what engineering told them to do and they dont know what they are trying to fix. I also told her her the policy stinks as Ford and Nissan both offer buy backs or new motors or trannys if a new vehicle with under 25000km and 365 days of service needs major engine or transmission repairs in that time, as well that the time, labour and parts that have gone into the car is worth more then the vehicle its self! I think its off to the media and CAMVAP to see that Chrysler does the right thing . The company is a joke and to save money they should get rid of the customer service dept. The dealer does the best job possible for what they have to work with. Sorry about the rant but this is rediculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bramfrank Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) I hope you recorded the conversation with the dealer, because CAMVAP is not going to bother with the hearing and review once they hear that the dealer was told not by Chrysler to bother trying to fix your undriveable vehicle. As to the person you spoke with at customer service . . . . . Start by speaking with a supervisor, but in parallel write a letter to the office of the president of Chrysler Canada outlining that you have a defective new vehicle that has not been accidented, but that the dealer says is unrepairable and ask him to explain why you are unable to get resolution . . . since if they can't fix the vehicle they have a legal obligation to either replace it or refund you your money. That letter has to go by e-mail, fax and by registered mail. Remember to claim for your expenses and payments made while the vehicle is unuseable. Be polite. be concise. Don't be aggressive. To heck with the 'edited' information. Proper spelling is more important. Edited December 1, 2011 by bramfrank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crappy Dodge Journey Posted December 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 No i didnt get it recorded but this dealer is great and he is going to put it down on letterhead for me! Thanks for the idea i had not thought about that! Everytime i talk to customer service i get forwarded to a senior rep! I asked for the VP's contact information and she would not give it to me so ill just search online for it. Chrysler customer service reps are very arrogant. The customer service ends at the dealership because as you go up the ladder the less they care! Its begining to get hard to bite my tongue. But i havent a choice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crappy Dodge Journey Posted December 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 BTW you called it! Just got a call from the dealer again. Engineering has ordered that the engine wireing harness be replaced! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caperinmuskoka Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) What does CAMVAP stand for? Thanks.....................caper............ Edited December 2, 2011 by caperinmuskoka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bramfrank Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 CAnadian Motor Vehicle Arbitration Plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crappy Dodge Journey Posted December 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) Chrysler Canada senior customer service rep called me this morning. Explained to me in detail everythig they are trying to do and why they are doing it. Apparently there is not a single Journey out there that has had these exact same symptoms other than the ETC light coming on and thats why they decided to rebuild the motor. (4 other cases) Everything else is brand new to them. I asked him since this is the first known case with major problems and we are now at day 19 with no resloution in sight, why dont you take my journey back and use it as a guinnea pig and put me in another chrysler vehicle. Said they would be back in contact with me at some point today. Edited December 2, 2011 by Crappy Dodge Journey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bramfrank Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 At leasst you could drive the vehicle to them - it doesn't need to be shipped across the world to get 'home'. Maybe they'll upgrade you to a fully loaded R/T while they are at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crappy Dodge Journey Posted December 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 At this point they dont want it. When we go to arbitration i know they will offer to put me in something else, which i have requested 3 times. At that point it wont even be an option. I no longer as long as i live will ever own another Chrysler corp product and its nothing to do with the vehicle or the dealer. When the vehicle ran it was great. Its how Customer service will not think logically and just frustrats and treats the customer with no respect what so ever. They deceive the customer at every oppertunity they can. They have had tons of oppertunities to do the right thing and all they do is brush the problem off in hopes that it will just go away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bramfrank Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Unfortunately CAMVAP will depreciate the buyback - maybe that's why they aren't making the offer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crappy Dodge Journey Posted December 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) They wont depreciate it on a vehicle with less than 25000km and 365 days of service. Its invoice price. As well its to the arbitrators discretion. So yes and no there could be a reduction. Edited December 2, 2011 by Crappy Dodge Journey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bramfrank Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 All I can say is; get those papers filed. And Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crappy Dodge Journey Posted December 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 The thing is fixed but chrysler wont release the vehicle yet. The dealer is getting all the paper work together and i should have it back tomorrow. Now awaiting the second phaze of my CAMVAP application to be returned from Chrysler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bramfrank Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 Beat the darned thing to death to see if it is REALLY fixed. It may well be, since the problem would, in my humble opinion be likely related to wiring (as mentioned). In fact it probably all goes to one bad common (ground) connection somewhere on the car. As I said before, engineers are not used to dealing with machines controlled by computers and they are not usually trained to debug problems - they design stuff and their software cohorts write code, but unfortunately they aren;t very good at solving complex problems. CAMVAP may not be any help if you can't make it break again - I think you need to get them to extend a special warranty long before the CAMVAP hearing - you could get stuck with this thing - then again if they fixed the issue, the vehicle will be reliable from this point on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crappy Dodge Journey Posted December 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 Ill for sure ask then for an extended warranty due to their issues! I had a lengthy conversation with the service manage the shop forman, the mechanic dedicated to my vehicle and the service advisor i was dealing with. They expressed sympathy towards my feelings about the vehicle but assured me that the vehicle may be better then it was when it came off the line. The dealership did all they could for me and went above and beyond what they had to do for me personally. I dont know if im overstepping my boundry here but if anyone in the GTA needs service done to their Chrysler vehicle take it to Dixie Chrysler in Brampton! Rodney, Rudy and H are all great guys to deal with. They go above and beyond for all their customers and take all issues personally and to heart as i witnessed them treating other customers the exact same way they treated me. As for Chrysler Customer service..... They are a joke and if they every need to cut money somewhere that is the first place they should start. If thats the best they have to offer then the company is in trouble. I still have my doubts about the vehicle mainly because it was torn apart as a trial and error vehicle. The whole CSR fiasco has turned me off of any Chrysler product as long as i live and there is no way i will recommend that anyone purchase one as well. Only because if you for some reason need to deal with anyone beyond the dealership level you will get no where. I will take my chance with CAMVAP as i have nothing more to lose on this vehicle. Ill keep you updated. Good luck to everyone with their Journey's and i hope mine is the only one that this happens to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgandy25 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Any updates? Hows the ride? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humansoul Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 wow...sorry to hear about your Journey. The mph to kmh is an easy flash; some dealerships are aware of the work order while some were not. When I took my car for my first oil change to where I bought my Journey from, they wanted to replace the whole unit and needed to get approval from Chrysler engineer! I knew the issue was a matter of a flash update, which was resolved when I went to my nearby dealership instead for my second oil change. As for the ETC issue, can't comment on that and can only have thoughts as to having a bad break-in period for the engine...it's hard to deal with two entities that don't work hand-in-hand. On one, you have a dealership, trying to fix your problem, on the other hand, you have HQ not knowing much about the problems and needing to get more information from the dealership. The fact that we haven't heard from you, it may seem everything is resolved now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Meyers Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Chrysler as a company is garbage. And now that they've buddied up with Fiat, it's going to go really downhill. I know they've made some strides to make better cars, the new 200, the redesigned 300, the new 3.6 Pentastar and whatnot, but they are eventually going to fail. They are far too behind other manufacturers at this point. Ford is on the right track, GM and Chrysler need to take notice of Ford's gameplan, or they're done for. I sincerely hope the next time Chrysler needs a bailout the American people, and Government, tell them to take a hike. Probably should have the last time. A joke indeed. And it's on us. Vote with your wallet from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drb227 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 I for one, am very happy with my Journey and also liked my 97 Cirrus and my 07 Caliber. No major problems with any of them. I will stick with Chrysler, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crappy Dodge Journey Posted March 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 Sorry about the long delay as nothing has really happened up until yesterday. Since the last time ive posted and with all the engine work done to it the fuel mileage has gone right down hill. Im lucky to get 395km on a full tank and thats if i want to stand at the pump and slowly pump in that last 1/8 of a tank. Anyhow CAMVAP got in contact with me and the hearing with the Arbitrator is set for March 29th 2012. Ill let you all know how it goes. I was also told to not be surprised if Chrysler Canada contacts me directly and offers me a brand new vehicle of my choice. Told her that wont happen because i gave them that chance off the bat. Its not like it was a used car. They do this so their buy back stats dont look so bad. On the CAMVAP website Chrysler has the highest percentage of forced buy backs. This is the last time ill ever own anything Chrysler related and its not because the Journey is a bad car. ( because my wrangler was great) Its because the customer service is non existant. The worst ever and I really hope when they need a bail out the govt lets this company die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crappy Dodge Journey Posted March 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 Human Soul - I have had that flash done and have been told by neumerous dealers that the bulliten is not a fix for the MPH issue. Its a mask till they come up with a proper one. You will notice every now and then your screen will not show and the vehicle will have to be restarted. The bulliten if for battery run down with a mask for the EVIC. So as ive been told straight up from the boys at dixie chrysler. Its not fixed. My point regarding that issue is that the dealer claims that they knew nothing about it but when i picked up the vehicle on delivery day and test drove the vehicle prior to that they had deceived me. I would have never bought something no matter how minor the issue that wasnt perfect especially since its brand new. However my 2012 Mustang GT convetible is a dream to drive and ford offers free oil changes for life on it! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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