FWD versus AWD winter driving comparison

[5rebel9]

So in my "observations" according to my last posting on the topic thread of "what did you do to your Journey today", here comes my story and plans for this 4 banger FWD DJ.

 

   Main roads were all cleared this morning and car drove fine, I was alone in the vehicle. So I took a different route back home on a hilly curvy road that I knew would be plowed but have numerous stretches where drifting(although plowed) would have a few inches of snow pack with slush. I know this road well and have learned the hard way NOT to drive it in the winter when it has snowed out. As expected at 40mph and hitting those areas, the car seemed to want to "float" on the front end and the rear started swaying. I got things under control with easing off the gas and NOT hitting the brakes, traction control or stability control did NOT activate.

  Now for those unaware of the work I've done with this car, suspension is good and fresh 4 wheel alignment done and all 4 corners have very aggressive tread snow tires

My first thing I'm going to try is to lower the tire pressures down to 30 psi. I know the warning lights will probably activate, but so be it. Doing this is an "old school" trick for winter driving here.

Next step is to add some weight in the rear. I want to "experiment with "placement", whether very rear or forward rear in the lower storage area (this is a 5 pass. model) and then try in the middle floorboard area.

  I believe the weight difference of having AWD (not that it has engaged) is the factor between the two types for "handling. As my son's '11 AWD(full snows) AND THE WIFE'S '13 awd(newer all seasons) feel much more "planted" to the road under similar conditions. 

  Also the relatively shorter wheelbase of the Journeys does make them a bit more "skittish" anyways when compared to other vehicles.

 

  PLEASE NOTE that these are my observations and ideas to try, and NOT that I'm saying these are "bad cars". just trying to make the winter driving experience a bit less stressful.

 

STAY TUNED for progress updates, they will be slow in coming as snow conditions need to be happening to make any judgments of what I try.

[larryl]

I also thought FWD was adequate until I got a Grand Cherokee....

Now i realize the Journey is just OK lol

[5rebel9]

LIGHT BULB MOMENT....

  Our home has a water softener that uses 40lb bags of salt. I am going to place 2 bags in each middle footwell area and cover with a runner rug to prevent any punctures. This would put the weight more to center and "balance" things out, as the front end seemed "light " also. We rarely have passengers  back there anyway, and come Spring I can then use the salt for it's intended purpose in the house!

 When we get more snows that would cause concerns, I'll post about how this works for me.

Edited November 12, 2025 by 5rebel9

[2late4u]

grew up in Mi and my father always had about 5  50 lb bags of sand each wrapped in a new garbage bag plus a small shovel in the trunk of our family car

[Summer Solstice]

I have put weight in the back of my FWD 2016 and it did make a noticeable difference. Tire condition is crucial on the Journey, especially on the rear of a FWD. That is from experience. 🙄

[5rebel9]

Thank you both for your input, yes weight and proper preparation are crucial along with prudent speed in winter conditions. But I feel 40 mph should be reasonable on plowed but some snow pack/slight mealy roads, which right now this car is NOT able.

I'm no "newbie" to winter driving, as I've been driving for 50 years now and in a multitude of vehicles.

The point is that I have been spoiled by starting out with the awd versions(3 of them) and NOW have this FWD. I feel the placement of weight is just as important as to having weight in the car, especially after what I experienced yesterday.

    My sister(the previous owner) said that they needed weight in the rear, but not too much so that the front drive wheels still had "bite" to get up hills around their home area. And partly why they "gave up" on keeping this car, they bought a newer( I think a '22 model) RAV4 AWD. This will be the 2nd winter with it for them and we will see how well they still like that ride, it has been at the dealer 3 times already for repairs to systems not usually encountered in normal driving.

 

Stay tuned for more postings when western NY get more significant snows.

[5rebel9]

It looks like my next chance for real winter driving will be on thurs. and Friday. Buffalo,NY not expected to get more than 2" of snow, but in the Southern tier below Buffalo(where I'm at) is forecast to get up to 6" of the white stuff.

Today I lowered tires to 34 psi and loaded 6 (44lb.each) bags across the rear cargo area. It surely squatted down the rear end, but made the front look like it was climbing for the sky. So I then placed 3 bags on each side of the middle floor, now it is sitting level and I can tell there is weight distributed to the front as the steering wheel has a bit more firmness when turning lock to lock when sitting still (engine running of course). The only downside is that the bags come level with the seat bottom, so other than my granddaughter in her car seat would be most uncomfortable riding in back. But the bags can easily be moved to the rear should passengers need to be in the rear(middle) seat.

 

Stay tuned for report on how this works out or not!

Edited November 25, 2025 by 5rebel9

[5rebel9]

I'm beginning to debate whether to try driving it or not....latest predictions by Friday 6:oopm are for a total of 1-2 FEET of snow ! We are also having much rain today and tomorrow with high gusting winds Thursday!

Edited November 25, 2025 by 5rebel9

[John/Horace]

Started my snow blower yesterday. Stored it with empty carb and sea foam additive in the gas left in the tank. Hate that ethanol gas, it’s even in most of our top to octane fuel now. Not that close to the lake but I still get some big snow dumps occasionally. Had one small 3” dump two weeks ago. Lake effect snow can be nuts some times. Haven’t tested my generator lately, should do that soon, no power really sucks. 

[5rebel9]

58 minutes ago, John/Horace said:

Started my snow blower yesterday. Stored it with empty carb and sea foam additive in the gas left in the tank. Hate that ethanol gas, it’s even in most of our top to octane fuel now. Not that close to the lake but I still get some big snow dumps occasionally. Had one small 3” dump two weeks ago. Lake effect snow can be nuts some times. Haven’t tested my generator lately, should do that soon, no power really sucks. 

I hear you!

   My snowblower is ready, but IF we were to lose power my back up is the 110 outlet in the wifes RT. That should be enough to tun the blower on my wood stove and have some heat for most of the house as I don't have a generator.  

[5rebel9]

Thanksgiving  Day morning and so far SOME light snowfall, but so far a big "nothing burger".

  Buffalo news stations still calling for 1-2 feet by Sat. morning for my area.

[larryl]

Holiday Valley can't wait........

[5rebel9]

2 hours ago, larryl said:

Holiday Valley can't wait........

 

LOL and YES they can have all they want as long s my normal driving patterns are not deeply impacted. I've got nothing against the "ski people"

 

8:30 pm and we have MAYBE 4" of the white stuff....but definitely NOT a heavy lake effect STORM

Edited November 28, 2025 by 5rebel9

[5rebel9]

6:00 am..... it snowed thru the night and measured 9". Light powder....just what skiers love (I suppose). YES the plows have been out, and just a thin coating on the road as viewed from my front windows.

Still snowing, but NOT a "storm"!

[larryl]

The 7ft. one was a storm...yikes

[5rebel9]

Sat. morning and 5 more inches of snow and still coming down. Forecast for another 2-3 inches for Sunday.

Need to go out and blow out the driveway again and clear off the cars AGAIN, at least my snowblower is working FINE.

Roads in town are a bit slush/snow covered, as it's now the weekend and they are not out as heavy keeping the roads clear. Needless to say, I have no plans for traveling out yet to see how well the FWD does with the added weight yet.

[John/Horace]

Lucked out, only got a 2-3 nches of wet heavy snow. My craftsman blower is a two stage but it struggles with wet heavy stuff. So I shoveled.

 

Have driven daughter in laws 2 wheel drive journey in light snow. With good Cooper snows it's not that bad. Extra weight increases stopping distance; in very small cars that float on the snow,  I have done that years ago.

 

The snow I deal with here is not any where near as bad as Buffalo snow belt. But I have spent lots of time in northern ontario, which has big storms and drifting.

People who say 4wd not needed or not worth the extra maint work...have never driven through 2 foot snow falls. It's not that hard to get stuck...even with 4wd drive and snow tires when it's bad enough out. 

[5rebel9]

Well, I took a drive today and took that same road that for me is a "no-no" road when snowing out, and the car handled much more to my likings. The front end stayed "planted" and the rear tracked as it should. Mind you I'm NOT looking for high speed capability as much as when you go from bare pavement onto snow patch or sudden spots of slush. The car did FINE at 45-50 mph with those conditions. I agree that when driving on roads that really need to be plowed it is best to SLOW DOWN or just stay home!

[5rebel9]

Had to make a 50 mile one way run to get fuel oil (diesel) for our furnace yesterday driving thru the lake effect snows all the way.  I've had 236 lbs. of weight in the middle floor  and yes, 40 -45 mph was the safest speeds to handle. It still would have minor rear end "twitch" on curves but very manageable. On the trip back home on the same route, I had a total of 670 lbs. of weight from the fuel. WOW talk about having a FIRMLY PLANTED feel to the road and even on curves! All the weight was carried on middle floor and seat area, and there was only room for front passenger if needed(I was alone). Visibility was better on the ride back home and was able to comfortably follow all posted speed limits with ease(55,40, 30 mph zones), and NO the suspension was NOT "bottomed out" from the weight!

 

Now, if "Mother Nature" would just crank the thermostat up some for warmer outside temps, it would be MUCH APPRECIATED! 

[John/Horace]

I have never had that much weight in a Journey. Good to know it can take it.  A fulll passenger load in a 7 seater is quite a bit too; brakes/suspension has a bit of a safety factor I think. Towed a trailer a little over the limit once with a Journey, short distance watching tranny temp; luckily no issues.

 

Picked up another can of super no ethanol for snow blower today. It's been getting used. Lake effect really bad lately, the big predicted storm to hit 30 states may also swing north they say.  Weekend might get rough. As long as lights stay on, I'm ok.  So I agree...we could use a few degree's of global warming right now. 🙄

[5rebel9]

@John/Horace

 YES it's been a pretty rough winter so far. I've already used the same amount of Diesel as all of last winter. Luckily I've been able to get it at U.S. $2.80/gal. and usually also fill the cars' gas tank at $2.70/gal.

For a 4 banger, that's about all I would want to put in it for weight, Too bad I needed the salt bags for the trip out or I would have also taken my 4 5 U.S. gal. jugs also.

T'was a rather "testy" ride out as I was driving directly into the length of the LES band. Coming home I was riding with the band and not too bad to drive. 

 

 Going out tomorrow for more gas (locally) for the blower and taking the wife along so she can pick up any foods and such we may need.

Going to be bitter cold(and already 10*f here) this weekend and into next week!

To all our members in this upcoming storm's path, stay SAFE and WARM!

[John/Horace]

 

Finally stopped snowing, pic of raised rear deck patio table. Some areas near by got 1.5' feet of snow. Light fluffy stuff, easy to snow blow.  Like you said...the cold is worse than the snow this year. A US gallon of regular gas here lately is about $3.20 ish cdn. Much lower than last year, tax rules change helped. Diesel still slightly more than gas. 

 

 

[5rebel9]

The wife is an official weather data collector for NOAA out of Buffalo, we got officially 8" of snow. BUT the driveway had an even fill of 12" with the lighter winds we got.Snow was the heavy granular type and my blower was working hard even with 1/2 width passes.  More snow to come and higher wind gusts for the next couple days!!!!!!

 I've got -25* washer solvent in all 3 cars, and they all froze in the tanks, something I've not seen in the DJ's or the G. Caravan before....... Shows how mild (comparably) the past few winters have been.

Nice DECK  and view you've got there!

Edited January 26 by 5rebel9

[Neto]

We got about 11 or 12 inches of small flake 'dry' snow here in central Ohio (East Holmes County). (But not nearly as light snow as was typical west of Minneapolis, where I attended Bible college during the years 75 through December of 78.)

 

For the small engines (small generator, snow blower, mowers) we use the 'recreational gasoline' they now have available at a convenience store just a couple miles from our home. I used to get it at a small engine repair shop near here, but the gas station has it for less, and it's more convenient, as I can buy it when the other place is closed. But I just went through the carb on the Honda GX200 engine that powers the generator. We never had issues with gunk in the carburetor like this back in the days of leaded gasoline. Did the lead prevent the formation of this stuff? (All of these pieces of equipment I bought used, so I cannot say what the previous owners used, but I have always used the non-alcohol fuel in all of them. But the generator especially hardly ever gets used, and the snow blower sat unused since, I think, the year before last. With small snow fall, and a fairly short driveway, it was easier to just use a shovel.)

Edited January 27 by Neto

[5rebel9]

YOU KNOW IT'S COLD OUT WHEN........

I left my fob(fairly fresh battery) in the center cup holder for 2 hours in my shut off 4 banger while offloading another 55 gal.  of diesel. when I got done and was ready to move the car to it's normal parking spot, I got the FOB not detected message and had to use the trick of fob pressing the start button. All was good afterward and FOB brought back in the house and warmed up.

 

I follow oil price on the market and "Gas Buddies" for station prices. Prices took a notable jump this last week so Thurs. I went to my normal reservation place and got 60 gal. @ $2.90/gal. Thurs night our daughter called and invited us to dinner on Saturday , so I broke the "piggy bank" and got another 55 gal @ $2.80 at a different reservation station that was higher on Thurs. on the trip there. My house tank is now half full and ready for 6 more weeks+ of winter and this continuing extreme cold snap!

 

And YES we had a wonderful time with daughter, son in law AND 3 1/2 year old GRANDDAUGHTER last evening ! the wife didn't even complain about lack of heated seats in the 4 banger, and unsynced the temp controls to lower the temp on her passenger side during the trip!!!!