Neto

Just to add a bit more info here, after watching some videos and doing more searching here on the forum. First, a self disclosure. In some other threads here about the throttle body, a new guy was dissed because he didn't know where the throttle body was located. Well, I didn't either. Had no idea what it is. I'm going on 67. I did my first engine swap when I was 21. I did my first overhaul when I was 24. BUT, that was a flathead in-line 6, a Plymouth 230. A couple of years later I had an intake leak on my 72 Dodge 318. Pulled it all apart and replaced the gasket. Not a complicated job at all, really, but while I had it apart my brother-in-law, who was in construction, looked under the hood and said "That car will never run again." (It did.) Then we moved to Brazil, where we didn't have vehicle of our own for quite a few years. Then I bought an 84 Volkswagon, the model that was called the Fox here (Voyage there), but it was an alcohol engine. It barely ran when I bought it, immediately replaced the carburetor, because the alcohol eventually eats out the inside of the carb, and you can no longer adjust the fuel-air mixture. Ran fine after that, but later needed to have the valves reseated. (I didn't have the tools there for that job, so I just did the R & R.) My point is that although I've had a good deal of experience with engine work, I didn't know where the throttle body was on a modern engine. Living out of the country for 18 years, and then owning a 15+ year old car there, I missed that whole transition period, when cars went from carbureted fuel systems to fuel injection. Not to strike back at anyone, or to be bragging, but some of the guys here were still making messes in their diapers when I did that first engine overhaul. So maybe some will say I shouldn't own (or be trying to maintain) modern vehicles. Well, if it wasn't for my wife's insistence, I would only have old vehicles, the ones I know how to work on. No one has said anything like that to me, yet. But by modern standards, I "deserve it". I would, however, suggest a bit more restraint in dealing with people before coming on with the smart-alec comebacks. Think of people like me as your old grandpa who grew up in that rather different era. Now, for more info on my issue here with the Journey. I ran through the process of "resetting the throttle body" as described by various forum members here, in other threads. (Thanks for that, by the way.) That didn't change anything, but I noticed then that while it runs fine when first started, the RPMs began to drop after a few minutes, then the engine starts to shake like all get out, and it barely keeps running. I hope no one is offended by what I said here. I do not mean it that way. I know - we can easily become that crusty old guy who has no patience with new-comers. I participate on the post-war Plymouth forum, and maybe I've been guilty myself. But we don't get new people into the hobby by making them feel stupid.

My son-in-law sent over an ODB II analyzer (or what ever it is called), and my son helped pull the following codes: CONFIRMED PO 336 Generic - Powertrain Crankshaft Position Sensor “A” Circuit Range/Performance PO315 Generic - Powertrain Crankshaft Position System Variation Not Learned PO300 Generic - Powertrain Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected P2004 Generic - Powertrain Intake Runner Manifold Control Stuck Open Bank 1 P2004 Mercedez-Benz – Powertrain Upgrade to get manufacturer specific codes UO402 Generic – Network Invalid Date Received from TCM PO339 Generic - Powertrain Crankshaft Position Sensor “A” Circuit Intermittent PO335 Generic - Powertrain Crankshaft Position Sensor “A” Circuit PO606 Generic - Powertrain Control Module Processor PENDING PO300 Generic - Powertrain Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected P2004 Generic - Powertrain Intake Runner Manifold Control Stuck Open Bank 1 P2004 Mercedez-Benz – Powertrain Upgrade to get manufacturer specific codes PERMANENT No Permanent Diagnostic Trouble Codes Reported I'm pretty certain that fixing this is beyond my skills, but just wondering if this indicates a major computer controller failure. In other words, is this going to kill off this 14 year old car? (I readily admit that this is WAY outside my experience level.) Oh, and this was done with the engine running.

I said 'if the filling station had a breach". I really doubt that they did, because the one where my wife usually fills up is on top of a hill. But there WAS a terrific down-pour in a very short time span. I just mentioned the possibility because the car was inside the garage during the entire storm, and is actually rarely out in the rain. (I DO know that in some languages the English words 'if' and 'since' are translated with the exact same word, and the context determines the meaning. Usually.) I'll follow up on the suggestions made so far as soon as the nearby stores open again.

OK. Will have to take a look. Like I told the other gentleman, I'm "old-school" on vehicle maintenance. (If it was up to me alone, I would just stick with the older vehicles. I have a 46 Plymouth I want to get back on the road. Had it since 1980.)

Thanks for the reply. Yes, it is the 2.4 Four Banger. The car was in the garage during the storm, but yes, of course the humidity is also high. And if the filling station had a breach of their gasoline tanks, then there's that possibility, too. As concerns maintenance, I know that I have not replaced the parts you mention. After I got back home and looked at it, I did just about everything my wife said she was doing when it acted up for her, but now she's afraid to drive it. So I guess I have to do SOMETHING. (Because the only time I drive it is on Sunday mornings to church, and only occasionally otherwise.) Should I plan on replacing the throttle body? Maybe I shouldn't be doing so much of the maintenance on our cars anymore, since I learned on the older carburetor engines, setting the points, and all of that good stuff. (I had a shop do a bunch of front-end work a year or so back, but other than that, I do it all. Just never worked on the front wheel drive system of any vehicle.)

Our 2009 Journey did a weird thing to my wife this morning. She started the car, and the Direction Control icon (skidding tires) came on before she put the car in reverse to back out of the parking spot. The engine was also running rough - small lurches as she described it. It dies a few times before she was able to go, and it seemed to run better w/o the A/C going. It died 2 or 3 times at stop lights or stop signs, before she go to the next place. Then it died when she tried to back out there as well (after leaving it running the whole time while there). On-line searches suggest that it might be a failing brake light switch, or the Direction Control system going haywire. But what could cause ALL of these issues except a major malfunction of the central computer module? I started it several times after I got home for lunch, backed up, went forward, etc., had the A/C on. Listened to the A/C with a stick against it and on the bone behind my ear, all of that. It's working fine now, as far as I can tell. We DID also just fill up (gasoline) a couple of days ago, but drove about 25 miles on Sunday, going to services at a convention in the area in stead of our regular congregation. It never acted up like this before. (I thought also about the fuel filter, and haven't replaced it recently. Also have not had a general tune-up for quite a long time.) The car has just over 105,000 on it. [In case anyone has noticed that I've not been on here for a long time - which I doubt - we were w/o internet for 4 weeks after a big storm here in Holmes County Ohio. ("Derencho", they called it. Had lots of trees down all over, one on the house, and a big Black Walnut uprooted in the back yard. About the internet service, we actually just finally got a different provider.]

That guy hasn't been on the forum since 3 days after he posted that for sale notice. (Might be lurking from time to time, but not logged in.)

You know, it's crazy to me that the same filter is indicated for my 2010 Dodge Caravan with the 4.0 V6 as is indicated for my 2009 Journey, with the 4 banger. I know some will say it does no good, or even that it will "harm" something, but I use the largest filter that will physically fit, the 10575, on both of them. Always have, and I have never had any engine problems that could possibly be attributed to this practice, on any vehicle I've ever owned. (That's about 45 years of personal auto maintenance, as I have never had anyone else change my oil.)

Our 2009 Journey is a base model, and we have the steel wheels. The paint has peeled off pretty badly on the plastic wheel covers, especially the rear ones. I have them off right now, and with the help of a small (electric) power washer was able to get nearly all of the remaining (bubbling) paint off of the first two. I considered using chrome paint, but got the closest silver paint I could find. I'm thinking of painting the background around the RAM either red, or black. (Red because all of the background areas on my 46 Plymouth are red, red is the Ram color, it's bright, etc. Black because the same emblem has a black background in other places, as it also does on my 2010 Caravan.) So, any opinions? (I also considered painting the Ram itself black, and the background red....) A car guy that works at our local hardware store suggested that paint that you can peel off later, and says that even though you can get it off, it doesn't come off by itself, like going through the car wash. I was figuring on using a small paint brush - used to have a steady enough hand to do some pinstriping with regular paint (not stickers). Not too sure about now - that was a whole lot of years back. (I would paint the whole wheel covers either red or canary yellow, but it's the "family car", meaning I only drive it to church services on Sundays - the rest of the time it's my wife's car. The car is a creamy off-white, by the way.)

My guess would be that a wire (or wires) is/are broken where they go through the boot from the door to the A pillar. It isn't logical (at least not to me) that the motor on the driver's door would also affect the other window winders.

I apologize for the jab. (There are actually a lot of people who join, make one post, then are never heard from again. We do actually want to hear how this turns out for you - what you find under that carpet.) Best wishes to you as you raise your children. Enjoy them - they are too soon gone. (Then you have to wait for grandchildren, the next great pleasure. I am 65, and only have two grandchildren, both boys, the oldest is 8 years old, & the youngest is around 6 weeks old.)

If anyone is in JT's area, I think he needs help getting out of the storage bin. (Must have fallen in & can't get out to check the forum.)

I just took a look under our 09, and those storage bins are a part of the main floor. That is, they were stamped as a part of the floor. So the plate or what ever closes that up on the top side is either screwed, glued, or spot welded in place. The reason it seems so crazy that they left it out is that our Journey is probably the most stripped down version available - no third row seat, no cruise, no remote door locks, etc. If they still built cars with window winders and manual locks, I reckon it would have been built that way. (Would have suit me just fine, prefer it, actually, but my wife would not have wanted the car.)

That is really weird. Apparently they just left out the trap door itself. Wonder what's under the carpet, if it is solid floor across that area, or if there is some sort of metal cover. Are there any screws visible around the perimeter from underneath?

There was a guy in my older brother's HS class that had a trap door in the backseat floor of his car. So when the cops stopped him and his buddies, the one in the back seat would just set their stash on the pavement, under the car. (Then retrieve it when he was told he could go.)

My daddy taught me this, and I guess I'm every bit as picky - I keep a small spiral notebook in all of our vehicles, and write the date, gallons, and mileage for every gas up, and for maintenance, the date & mileage, plus a brief description of what I did. I tried to teach my sons & daughter the same practice, but I don't think any of them do it for their vehicles.

My impression is that it is monitoring things like how many times you start & stop the engine. (Someone told me that each time you start it, they count that as 500 miles.) So like today, when I hauled some mulch for my wife, there were many startup, then going only a few car lengths, then stop & shovel out more of the mulch. Then this afternoon I was loading some railroad ties on the trailer, and I started & shut down the engine numerous times while I was positioning the trailer to be able to load those heavy things by myself. (I didn't leave it running, because I don't like breathing the exhaust.)

I have done it on my zero turn tires by the twisted rope method, and also with a tie down strap. Got hit in the face once with the strap latch when I released it. Learned to wrap it around a few times, and the friction where it crosses over itself slows down the recoil when it is released. Those tires are so small and wide that it makes it harder than a car tire, I think.

That's what I told him, too. (I had told him up-front that I was not a serious buyer. It was only later that I started REALLY wanting to go back for it, but I still hope it stays local, because it would be handy to have one to go look at from time to time when I wasn't sure how mine should go back together. I bought my 46 as a "basket-case" in 1980, then dismantled it even more, to repaint the frame and repair the floor. It has sat all that time since 83, when I moved away, got married, and moved overseas for 18 years.) Wasn't a serious issue, but the funny thing about just having posted about not having issues with the Journey, at Noon my wife called me & said it's making "terrible noises". One front brake pad had lost off, and it went steel on steel. I haven't had good luck with disk brakes on other vehicles I've had (except for my first one that had them, a 72 Dodge Coronet), but this is the first time I've had to replace the fronts ever since we bought it in Dec 2010. That's been almost 76,000 miles. Wish I knew what brand of pads they were. (Someone will now tell me that is impossible, but it's true. I coast to a stop whenever possible, slow down early when approaching town, etc. Drives my wife crazy, but that's the way I was taught by my dad.)

Well my wife rolled our 2009 Journey day before yesterday ...... to 100,000 miles, that is. Everything is all still good after 10+ years of ownership. (Bought it used.) Have a chance to buy another Plymouth P15 (the 46 through early 49 models), this one built in late 48. But I cannot afford to have two of them in my "stables" - already need to build a shop to get the 46 out of the main garage. Anyway, this 48 has less than 14,000 miles on it, and although that sounds unbelievable, I think it's almost certainly correct. (Unless someone periodically disconnected the odometer, or ran it back a bit. But it's in way too good of shape for it to be the second time around. Asking price is $7,800.00.)

There was a time when American built automobiles were better quality (with the exception of certain European vehicles that were not really mass-produced), but that's not really my reason. This will get a bit into religion, but when the Jews were in exile in Babylon God told them (through the prophet Jeremiah) that while they were there in exile they should "build houses, have families, and seek the prosperity of whatever city in which they found themselves". That was of course a message for them, in that time and in that situation, but I think that there is a principle behind it, that I, as a follower of the same God, seek to follow - to as much as possible (within loyalty to Him as first in everything) support the economic success of whatever country in which I live. So when we lived in Brazil we had a Brazilian-made vehicle (not a Brazilian company, as there are none) and bought Brazilian products as much as possible. Now that we live in the States, I try to do the same. It is certainly getting more difficult, and in some cases (like computer parts) virtually impossible, so I won't argue that, and I don't slavishly hold to it; it is just an objective.

Edging closer to 100,000 miles. Will let you all know.... When does all this stuff typically start, anyway? My wife's dad was one to trade cars every few years, so she says something about it being time to get a different one every once in a while. But I'm dragging my feet because she wants one from over the ocean next time, and I like to buy American. [I'll admit, however, that I was taken aback when, just as I was signing for this one (back in 2010), I saw that it was not manufactured in the States. But I don't hesitate to say that it's been a great vehicle for us.] (I come from a family where we drove them till they wouldn't go anymore, then put them in the back pasture, like an old horse going onto retirement.)

You know, I get the blues reading all of the stuff on here (and on the Chrysler mini-van site - have one of those, too) about the issues many are facing. It's mostly electronic stuff. The connection to a cell phone, the electric window winders, or door locks. The video players, etc. Seems that's just about all there is anymore. Makes me wonder when I will start having all of those issues with my 2009 Journey.....

If you know which wheel it is, I would suggest raising that wheel just a bit off the ground (with a support under the lower control arm, not the frame, so that the weight is still on the suspension. Then have someone apply the brakes, and see if you can get it to make the same noise by trying to rotate the wheel back & forth. (If it moves at all, it will only be a bit.) The purpose of this test is to see if the noise is coming from a slight slack or movement between the two parts of the calipers.

This problem started after A/C became so common in cars that they no longer designed vehicles for driving with the windows down. Some younger folks may think I'm nuts, or pulling your leg, but cars of the 50's and at least until the early 60's didn't do that. (Family cars my folks had before A/C that I specifically remember as not being like that are a 48 Dodge, 53 DeSoto, and a 62 Chrysler. The last one later became my first car, and I always drove with the windows down in good weather - like I said, it didn't have A/C. The next car they got did have it, a 71 Olds 98, and if you put the windows down it had the issue you're talking about.)