Neto

I think I did look there, but I will go with the site 2Late4U suggested. I'm holding off yet, because I may offer the snow tires and wheels along with the 2009 Journey when it sells. But I actually haven't advertised yet. I don't like to sell stuff - having people try to get the price way down. I'm used to keeping a vehicle until it's ready for the scrap yard, so I don't have experience in selling used cars. Also, before the Journey went to the shop for an extended vacation, I had repainted the wheel covers, because the paint had flaked off almost entirely on some of them. (I wonder if it's from going through the car wash. I do it mostly in the winter, after driving in the salt, of which they use more than necessary around here.) Then I did a bit of "custom" hand painting on the wheel cover centers: (Not perfect at all - I don't have the steady hand like I did back when I was only 1/3 my current age - even did a bit of pinstripping by hand back then. The centers of these in stock form are all silver. I was tempted to do them in red, but this matches the other emblems on the car.)

I have the Traction Control light on as well, from when I start the car. (2009 Journey, 105,400 miles.) I would think that if it comes on before the vehicle is in gear or moving, it could not be anything to do with the wheel sensors, or ABS. (Some people suggested the latter in my case.) Our Journey doesn't have the cruise option, so the only thing with it is that that light stays on. (The ABS system is still working OK, because a few days ago I drove across a grassy spot on an incline at the same time that I was braking to a stop, and the ABS switched on - off, on - off, as it does when one wheel is spinning or sliding while others are not.) We had it in the shop for an extended period, and they gave up on fixing it. (In the mean time my wife decided that it was time to update to a newer vehicle, so we purchased another vehicle already.) I don't drive aggressively, so haven't taken any tight turns at speed. (I think I understand you to mean that is what you did.)

Thanks much. That's the best price I've seen yet. (Best I found came to $50.00 for 20, $1.50 ea. no shipping.) This one comes out to just under 40 including shipping, for all 20, around $25.00 for my minimum of 12. (3 per wheel. That's how many are actually securing the wheel cover.)

Does any one know what the descriptive name is for this type of lug nut? Is 6504672 the correct MoPar part number? (In case someone hasn't seen them, or not recently, there is a flange that holds the wheel cover in place. Two of the holes in the wheel covers are larger, to allow even these lug nuts to pass through. Normal lug nuts will just pass through all of the holes in the wheel covers.)

Thanks. I may just check with some area salvages, although there are none within 30 miles of me. (I have some extras of the type for aluminum wheels of the same size & thread that I could give in exchange, so that the vehicles I take them from would still have the wheels mounted.)

I have been looking for a source to purchase more of the special flanged lug nuts for mounting the plastic wheel covers that are used on the steel wheels. (There is an additional flange that holds the wheel cover in place. There needs to be at least 3 on each wheel. The other two holes on the wheel covers are larger, so that you can put on those two lugs before installing the wheel cover. That is, the lugs pass through the plastic wheel cover.) Any known sources? I think I'm using the wrong search term, because nothing comes up that is similar to what is required. All help much appreciated.

As to how long they last, we have a 2009 Journey, purchased in Dec. 2010. 105,400 miles on the odometer, never replaced them since we purchased the car. (I doubt if they had been replaced prior to that, either, as the car only had 24,000 plus change on the clock then.) Actually, it is now for sale. My wife said it was time to upgrade. (I have mentioned some issues we had with it that put it in the shop for extended period this Summer - all fixed except that the Traction Control light is still on. Mechanic couldn't find the issue.)

Well, it's been a long time since I started this, and high time I came back to this. My wife insisted that I not try to fix this myself, so I took it into an area shop. It's been a long, drawn out affair, where they tell me, after around 7 weeks, that it's fixed. But it wasn't. So in the meantime my wife (who is the primary driver for this vehicle - I mostly only drive it to church services on Sundays) has lost all confidence in the Journey. So our 'journey' with the Journey has come to an end. I'm a dyed in the wool MoPar guy, but the 2009 Journey is leaving this family. I guess it did well, outliving the entire production run. We purchased it used right around Christmas 2010. Manufacture date was in July of 2008. My wife wanted something else this time, so we now own one of those "ferrin" cars, but built here in Ohio, I think. The Journey went into the shop July 27th. They had it until September 13th. Said it was fixed, but it wasn't. Took it back again September 30th, supposedly for a 1 or 2 day deal (to install the cam sensor). Finally just went & got it "as is" today, October 24th. It did fine on the short drive home (less than 2 miles), but it's still throwing the one code, C121C. They don't know how to fix it. Traction Control light comes on after starting the engine, usually before putting it in gear. Error Code C121C "Torque Request Signal Denied". Stuff they did that I know about (I asked for a complete list several times, but I finally realize that I'll never get one.): Cleaned the throttle Body, and replaced the TB sensor. Replaced the main computer. Replaced the Cam Sensor. He now thinks it might be in the wiring, but at this point my wife is ready for a different vehicle, so it's "game over". (Bought a '19 Honda CR-V on Saturday.) So now (with only just over 105,000 miles on it) I have to decide whether to take it elsewhere, pay more, and maybe have someone else tell me that it cannot be fixed, and just throw more good money after bad (or maybe spend more getting it fixed than I can sell it for), try to sell it as is, sell my work car (2010 Dodge Caravan almost 140,000 miles) and drive it as is. (The mechanic thinks that the problem, what ever it is, may be the reason the ECM went bad, and that using it as is will result in burning out another. To be honest, however, I’m not convinced the original one was really bad. I asked him, among other questions, how much better it ran after they cleaned the throttle body, which they did first, but he never answered.) And now, although the past two days have been warm, even almost hot, here in Ohio I know that won’t last, and I don’t have a heated shop to work on it myself. So, once again, if anyone can give me a good idea of what the issue is, it would be much appreciated.

We've had three different MoPar minivans - 93 & 2000 Chrysler T&Cs, and now have a 2010 Dodge GC. My favorite was the 93. Nicest vehicle I've ever owned.

Just to add a bit more info here, after watching some videos and doing more searching here on the forum. First, a self disclosure. In some other threads here about the throttle body, a new guy was dissed because he didn't know where the throttle body was located. Well, I didn't either. Had no idea what it is. I'm going on 67. I did my first engine swap when I was 21. I did my first overhaul when I was 24. BUT, that was a flathead in-line 6, a Plymouth 230. A couple of years later I had an intake leak on my 72 Dodge 318. Pulled it all apart and replaced the gasket. Not a complicated job at all, really, but while I had it apart my brother-in-law, who was in construction, looked under the hood and said "That car will never run again." (It did.) Then we moved to Brazil, where we didn't have vehicle of our own for quite a few years. Then I bought an 84 Volkswagon, the model that was called the Fox here (Voyage there), but it was an alcohol engine. It barely ran when I bought it, immediately replaced the carburetor, because the alcohol eventually eats out the inside of the carb, and you can no longer adjust the fuel-air mixture. Ran fine after that, but later needed to have the valves reseated. (I didn't have the tools there for that job, so I just did the R & R.) My point is that although I've had a good deal of experience with engine work, I didn't know where the throttle body was on a modern engine. Living out of the country for 18 years, and then owning a 15+ year old car there, I missed that whole transition period, when cars went from carbureted fuel systems to fuel injection. Not to strike back at anyone, or to be bragging, but some of the guys here were still making messes in their diapers when I did that first engine overhaul. So maybe some will say I shouldn't own (or be trying to maintain) modern vehicles. Well, if it wasn't for my wife's insistence, I would only have old vehicles, the ones I know how to work on. No one has said anything like that to me, yet. But by modern standards, I "deserve it". I would, however, suggest a bit more restraint in dealing with people before coming on with the smart-alec comebacks. Think of people like me as your old grandpa who grew up in that rather different era. Now, for more info on my issue here with the Journey. I ran through the process of "resetting the throttle body" as described by various forum members here, in other threads. (Thanks for that, by the way.) That didn't change anything, but I noticed then that while it runs fine when first started, the RPMs began to drop after a few minutes, then the engine starts to shake like all get out, and it barely keeps running. I hope no one is offended by what I said here. I do not mean it that way. I know - we can easily become that crusty old guy who has no patience with new-comers. I participate on the post-war Plymouth forum, and maybe I've been guilty myself. But we don't get new people into the hobby by making them feel stupid.

My son-in-law sent over an ODB II analyzer (or what ever it is called), and my son helped pull the following codes: CONFIRMED PO 336 Generic - Powertrain Crankshaft Position Sensor “A” Circuit Range/Performance PO315 Generic - Powertrain Crankshaft Position System Variation Not Learned PO300 Generic - Powertrain Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected P2004 Generic - Powertrain Intake Runner Manifold Control Stuck Open Bank 1 P2004 Mercedez-Benz – Powertrain Upgrade to get manufacturer specific codes UO402 Generic – Network Invalid Date Received from TCM PO339 Generic - Powertrain Crankshaft Position Sensor “A” Circuit Intermittent PO335 Generic - Powertrain Crankshaft Position Sensor “A” Circuit PO606 Generic - Powertrain Control Module Processor PENDING PO300 Generic - Powertrain Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected P2004 Generic - Powertrain Intake Runner Manifold Control Stuck Open Bank 1 P2004 Mercedez-Benz – Powertrain Upgrade to get manufacturer specific codes PERMANENT No Permanent Diagnostic Trouble Codes Reported I'm pretty certain that fixing this is beyond my skills, but just wondering if this indicates a major computer controller failure. In other words, is this going to kill off this 14 year old car? (I readily admit that this is WAY outside my experience level.) Oh, and this was done with the engine running.

I said 'if the filling station had a breach". I really doubt that they did, because the one where my wife usually fills up is on top of a hill. But there WAS a terrific down-pour in a very short time span. I just mentioned the possibility because the car was inside the garage during the entire storm, and is actually rarely out in the rain. (I DO know that in some languages the English words 'if' and 'since' are translated with the exact same word, and the context determines the meaning. Usually.) I'll follow up on the suggestions made so far as soon as the nearby stores open again.

OK. Will have to take a look. Like I told the other gentleman, I'm "old-school" on vehicle maintenance. (If it was up to me alone, I would just stick with the older vehicles. I have a 46 Plymouth I want to get back on the road. Had it since 1980.)

Thanks for the reply. Yes, it is the 2.4 Four Banger. The car was in the garage during the storm, but yes, of course the humidity is also high. And if the filling station had a breach of their gasoline tanks, then there's that possibility, too. As concerns maintenance, I know that I have not replaced the parts you mention. After I got back home and looked at it, I did just about everything my wife said she was doing when it acted up for her, but now she's afraid to drive it. So I guess I have to do SOMETHING. (Because the only time I drive it is on Sunday mornings to church, and only occasionally otherwise.) Should I plan on replacing the throttle body? Maybe I shouldn't be doing so much of the maintenance on our cars anymore, since I learned on the older carburetor engines, setting the points, and all of that good stuff. (I had a shop do a bunch of front-end work a year or so back, but other than that, I do it all. Just never worked on the front wheel drive system of any vehicle.)

Our 2009 Journey did a weird thing to my wife this morning. She started the car, and the Direction Control icon (skidding tires) came on before she put the car in reverse to back out of the parking spot. The engine was also running rough - small lurches as she described it. It dies a few times before she was able to go, and it seemed to run better w/o the A/C going. It died 2 or 3 times at stop lights or stop signs, before she go to the next place. Then it died when she tried to back out there as well (after leaving it running the whole time while there). On-line searches suggest that it might be a failing brake light switch, or the Direction Control system going haywire. But what could cause ALL of these issues except a major malfunction of the central computer module? I started it several times after I got home for lunch, backed up, went forward, etc., had the A/C on. Listened to the A/C with a stick against it and on the bone behind my ear, all of that. It's working fine now, as far as I can tell. We DID also just fill up (gasoline) a couple of days ago, but drove about 25 miles on Sunday, going to services at a convention in the area in stead of our regular congregation. It never acted up like this before. (I thought also about the fuel filter, and haven't replaced it recently. Also have not had a general tune-up for quite a long time.) The car has just over 105,000 on it. [In case anyone has noticed that I've not been on here for a long time - which I doubt - we were w/o internet for 4 weeks after a big storm here in Holmes County Ohio. ("Derencho", they called it. Had lots of trees down all over, one on the house, and a big Black Walnut uprooted in the back yard. About the internet service, we actually just finally got a different provider.]

That guy hasn't been on the forum since 3 days after he posted that for sale notice. (Might be lurking from time to time, but not logged in.)

You know, it's crazy to me that the same filter is indicated for my 2010 Dodge Caravan with the 4.0 V6 as is indicated for my 2009 Journey, with the 4 banger. I know some will say it does no good, or even that it will "harm" something, but I use the largest filter that will physically fit, the 10575, on both of them. Always have, and I have never had any engine problems that could possibly be attributed to this practice, on any vehicle I've ever owned. (That's about 45 years of personal auto maintenance, as I have never had anyone else change my oil.)

Our 2009 Journey is a base model, and we have the steel wheels. The paint has peeled off pretty badly on the plastic wheel covers, especially the rear ones. I have them off right now, and with the help of a small (electric) power washer was able to get nearly all of the remaining (bubbling) paint off of the first two. I considered using chrome paint, but got the closest silver paint I could find. I'm thinking of painting the background around the RAM either red, or black. (Red because all of the background areas on my 46 Plymouth are red, red is the Ram color, it's bright, etc. Black because the same emblem has a black background in other places, as it also does on my 2010 Caravan.) So, any opinions? (I also considered painting the Ram itself black, and the background red....) A car guy that works at our local hardware store suggested that paint that you can peel off later, and says that even though you can get it off, it doesn't come off by itself, like going through the car wash. I was figuring on using a small paint brush - used to have a steady enough hand to do some pinstriping with regular paint (not stickers). Not too sure about now - that was a whole lot of years back. (I would paint the whole wheel covers either red or canary yellow, but it's the "family car", meaning I only drive it to church services on Sundays - the rest of the time it's my wife's car. The car is a creamy off-white, by the way.)

My guess would be that a wire (or wires) is/are broken where they go through the boot from the door to the A pillar. It isn't logical (at least not to me) that the motor on the driver's door would also affect the other window winders.

I apologize for the jab. (There are actually a lot of people who join, make one post, then are never heard from again. We do actually want to hear how this turns out for you - what you find under that carpet.) Best wishes to you as you raise your children. Enjoy them - they are too soon gone. (Then you have to wait for grandchildren, the next great pleasure. I am 65, and only have two grandchildren, both boys, the oldest is 8 years old, & the youngest is around 6 weeks old.)

If anyone is in JT's area, I think he needs help getting out of the storage bin. (Must have fallen in & can't get out to check the forum.)

I just took a look under our 09, and those storage bins are a part of the main floor. That is, they were stamped as a part of the floor. So the plate or what ever closes that up on the top side is either screwed, glued, or spot welded in place. The reason it seems so crazy that they left it out is that our Journey is probably the most stripped down version available - no third row seat, no cruise, no remote door locks, etc. If they still built cars with window winders and manual locks, I reckon it would have been built that way. (Would have suit me just fine, prefer it, actually, but my wife would not have wanted the car.)

That is really weird. Apparently they just left out the trap door itself. Wonder what's under the carpet, if it is solid floor across that area, or if there is some sort of metal cover. Are there any screws visible around the perimeter from underneath?

There was a guy in my older brother's HS class that had a trap door in the backseat floor of his car. So when the cops stopped him and his buddies, the one in the back seat would just set their stash on the pavement, under the car. (Then retrieve it when he was told he could go.)

My daddy taught me this, and I guess I'm every bit as picky - I keep a small spiral notebook in all of our vehicles, and write the date, gallons, and mileage for every gas up, and for maintenance, the date & mileage, plus a brief description of what I did. I tried to teach my sons & daughter the same practice, but I don't think any of them do it for their vehicles.