Neto

I didn't read over the entire thread so far, but I had a 2000 Chrysler T&C that would get soaked carpet like that. It was the drain from the wiper stowage area. Leaves fall in there, rot, then plug the tube that is supposed to drain water out of that area before it got high enough to get into that chamber of the heating-cooling system. I could usually just pull the rubber drain tube off on the firewall, and the water would pour out. There was always a lot of water in there before it would actually come in through there, into the cabin. Then just had to run a wire through the drain tube to clear it. (And try to remember to keep after it, before it soaked the carpet again.) In my case, it would come pouring in just as I moved the car. As it tilted to one side, then the water would come in on the low side. Same deal with the trees - lots of pine needles in my case.

Get ready, people are probably going to jump down your back about wanting to disable the ABS. I myself am inclined to agree that it sometimes does more damage than helps. But maybe only if you learned to drive before they started putting that corruption on cars. (At the intersection where our street enters the next larger street, it is a steep descent down to the stop sign. They also rarely clear the snow & ice away out of the right side of the lane, and so the right tires are on snow or ice, while the left tires are on mostly dry pavement. What I've experienced is that under these conditions, the ABS prevents me from easily stopping the car there, because it continually disengages the brakes on the left side, the tires on which I am depending to be able to stop. I learned to drive way before ABS, and I can do better than this automatic system in knowing how much brake to use, and when to let off for a bit to regain traction.) But sorry that I do not know the answer to your question, for this vehicle. I had an off-brand (non-MoPar) PU that I pulled the ABS fuse, and it disabled the cruise as well. In my case, I didn't need that anyway, because we live in the country, and in a county with mostly narrow, curvey dirt roads that go up & down steep hills. So not a place for cruise.

Welcome. I am an Okie in exile (Ohio). Grew up north of Tulsa.

My dad was a service department parts guy (that is, he served the mechanics, not the public) his whole life, and his work vehicle was almost always one made by the manufacturer serviced by the dealership where he worked. But he never worked at any Ford place. Chrysler Plymouth Dodge DeSoto starting out, a short stint at Pontiac, then Rambler. The last place was 23 years at Oldsmobile. He had a Rambler, but wasn't at Pontiac very long at all. His Dad was a Ford guy, although he only ever owned 4 cars his whole life. 1925 Model T, 39 sedan, 49 sedan, and a 61, all Fords.

Sorry about this, but I drifted off of the original topic, and onto an issue with a non-MoPar vehicle. As a dyed-in-the-wool MoPar guy it hurts me to admit this, but we now own a 2019 Honda CR-V that was to replace the Journey. (My Dad, who is gone now for almost 2 years, DID tell me once that he wouldn't disown me if we got a certain other make, the one that starts with an "F".... That's what my wife's dad always had, with a few exceptions.) I say "was to replace" because I haven't sold the Journey yet - I simply do not know how to sell a vehicle. (I don't mean that in the technical sense, but more like "I cannot bring myself to part with it, other than through its eventual demise, probably at the hands of the "Salt Devil". And my younger brother has the same "illness", and incidentally that's where my first car, a 62 Chrysler Newport, still sits, in the pasture behind his house.) So this 5th Gen 2019 Honda CR-V EX-L came with 18" alloy wheels. (Apparently none of that year's models came with steel wheels, and I cannot find any after-market steel wheels that say that they will fit this vehicle. There seems to have been a design change in the middle of this generation, after the 2017 model.) So the wheels I ended up with for the Blizzaks are 17" alloy OEM Honda wheels of uncertain year. My best guess is that they are probably from 4th Gen Honda CR-Vs. Honda talks in metric nonsense of course, but the lug pattern on these wheels is actually 5x4.5, the same as the 1993 2nd Gen Chrysler Town & Country on which I conducted a "mercy-killing" when it became evident that it was destined to a slow death at the hands of the aforementioned "Salt Devil". Those wheels would probably fit without the caliper interference on the face area, but they are 15s, and the only tire I can find that is a close match to the 235/60R18 is a 235/65R17. (Two additional tire rotations per mile.) I read an article on Summit Racing about the hub-centric vs lug-centric controversy, where the author states that the hub plays no part in supporting the weight of the vehicle during operation. (He says that it is friction alone, regardless of the wheel/hub design.) Then a woman who claims to be qualified to speak on the matter wrote a long response, supporting the theory I had always thought to be correct, that the hub DOES support the wheel, unless it is designed as lug-centric. (I have a small aluminum trailer (4x8, open box) with lug-centric hubs and wheels, and the lug bolts are of a larger diameter, which makes sense if they are depended on to support the weight, not the hub's machined outer surface. I will send a text message to the seller of the alloys, and see if he can tell me what vehicle these wheels came from. (I didn't personally pick them up - my son-in-law needed to go down to that area, some 2 1/2 hours south of us, so I asked him to make the transaction.) EDIT: My guess is that the 17" Honda alloy wheels would fit the 2017 and earlier CR-Vs, but I don't have one to test it on.

Another question: What do you all think of running spacers on the front wheels? (There is a bit of caliper interference, a bit less than 1/4". The thinnest spacers are 5mm. But this would push the wheel out far enough that the wheel would no longer engage the flange on the hub. (So in my thinking, that would make it "lug bearing", not "hub bearing". Not crazy about doing this.)

The result: (If I posted these photos here already, in another thread, my apologies.) Painted the centers (black) by hand, with a # 2 camel hair brush which I had trimmed a bit to get more of a point. Not anywhere near perfect. I'm not as steady with hand work as I was back when I was 1/3 my current age.

Do you still have an old Neon? If anyone is interested, I have the bumper skin for a 98 model - free for anyone who can use it. (That was the last year for that generation, correct?) Also have 4 14" rims off of that same car. (Had two sets, one with snow tires. The tires were used on another vehicle, but still have the wheels. Going to have to start getting rid of some things. My wife already thinks I'm a pack rat, and "hoarder" is the next in line....) Also have a (white) right front fender for that 98. [The deal was that we bought that car for our daughter to get to & from school. Then someone hit her, and although the other insurance company totaled it, being an older vehicle it wasn't badly damaged at all. I was going to fix it, but then after it left her sitting once time, she didn't trust it anymore. Then after I bought this bumper skin I was talking about, I found out that although I had the VIN info off of the salvage car I got the parts from, there was no VIN tag on the bumper, and after reading what I'd have to do ti get a title again, I got "scared" that they'd confiscate the car, as it says in the state handbook. So I let the insurance company take it anyway. A friend who rebuilds newer salvage cars later told me they very seldom actually investigate the replacement parts, and especially not on one that old, but it was long gone by then.]

I think I did look there, but I will go with the site 2Late4U suggested. I'm holding off yet, because I may offer the snow tires and wheels along with the 2009 Journey when it sells. But I actually haven't advertised yet. I don't like to sell stuff - having people try to get the price way down. I'm used to keeping a vehicle until it's ready for the scrap yard, so I don't have experience in selling used cars. Also, before the Journey went to the shop for an extended vacation, I had repainted the wheel covers, because the paint had flaked off almost entirely on some of them. (I wonder if it's from going through the car wash. I do it mostly in the winter, after driving in the salt, of which they use more than necessary around here.) Then I did a bit of "custom" hand painting on the wheel cover centers: (Not perfect at all - I don't have the steady hand like I did back when I was only 1/3 my current age - even did a bit of pinstripping by hand back then. The centers of these in stock form are all silver. I was tempted to do them in red, but this matches the other emblems on the car.)

I have the Traction Control light on as well, from when I start the car. (2009 Journey, 105,400 miles.) I would think that if it comes on before the vehicle is in gear or moving, it could not be anything to do with the wheel sensors, or ABS. (Some people suggested the latter in my case.) Our Journey doesn't have the cruise option, so the only thing with it is that that light stays on. (The ABS system is still working OK, because a few days ago I drove across a grassy spot on an incline at the same time that I was braking to a stop, and the ABS switched on - off, on - off, as it does when one wheel is spinning or sliding while others are not.) We had it in the shop for an extended period, and they gave up on fixing it. (In the mean time my wife decided that it was time to update to a newer vehicle, so we purchased another vehicle already.) I don't drive aggressively, so haven't taken any tight turns at speed. (I think I understand you to mean that is what you did.)

Thanks much. That's the best price I've seen yet. (Best I found came to $50.00 for 20, $1.50 ea. no shipping.) This one comes out to just under 40 including shipping, for all 20, around $25.00 for my minimum of 12. (3 per wheel. That's how many are actually securing the wheel cover.)

Does any one know what the descriptive name is for this type of lug nut? Is 6504672 the correct MoPar part number? (In case someone hasn't seen them, or not recently, there is a flange that holds the wheel cover in place. Two of the holes in the wheel covers are larger, to allow even these lug nuts to pass through. Normal lug nuts will just pass through all of the holes in the wheel covers.)

Thanks. I may just check with some area salvages, although there are none within 30 miles of me. (I have some extras of the type for aluminum wheels of the same size & thread that I could give in exchange, so that the vehicles I take them from would still have the wheels mounted.)

I have been looking for a source to purchase more of the special flanged lug nuts for mounting the plastic wheel covers that are used on the steel wheels. (There is an additional flange that holds the wheel cover in place. There needs to be at least 3 on each wheel. The other two holes on the wheel covers are larger, so that you can put on those two lugs before installing the wheel cover. That is, the lugs pass through the plastic wheel cover.) Any known sources? I think I'm using the wrong search term, because nothing comes up that is similar to what is required. All help much appreciated.

As to how long they last, we have a 2009 Journey, purchased in Dec. 2010. 105,400 miles on the odometer, never replaced them since we purchased the car. (I doubt if they had been replaced prior to that, either, as the car only had 24,000 plus change on the clock then.) Actually, it is now for sale. My wife said it was time to upgrade. (I have mentioned some issues we had with it that put it in the shop for extended period this Summer - all fixed except that the Traction Control light is still on. Mechanic couldn't find the issue.)

Well, it's been a long time since I started this, and high time I came back to this. My wife insisted that I not try to fix this myself, so I took it into an area shop. It's been a long, drawn out affair, where they tell me, after around 7 weeks, that it's fixed. But it wasn't. So in the meantime my wife (who is the primary driver for this vehicle - I mostly only drive it to church services on Sundays) has lost all confidence in the Journey. So our 'journey' with the Journey has come to an end. I'm a dyed in the wool MoPar guy, but the 2009 Journey is leaving this family. I guess it did well, outliving the entire production run. We purchased it used right around Christmas 2010. Manufacture date was in July of 2008. My wife wanted something else this time, so we now own one of those "ferrin" cars, but built here in Ohio, I think. The Journey went into the shop July 27th. They had it until September 13th. Said it was fixed, but it wasn't. Took it back again September 30th, supposedly for a 1 or 2 day deal (to install the cam sensor). Finally just went & got it "as is" today, October 24th. It did fine on the short drive home (less than 2 miles), but it's still throwing the one code, C121C. They don't know how to fix it. Traction Control light comes on after starting the engine, usually before putting it in gear. Error Code C121C "Torque Request Signal Denied". Stuff they did that I know about (I asked for a complete list several times, but I finally realize that I'll never get one.): Cleaned the throttle Body, and replaced the TB sensor. Replaced the main computer. Replaced the Cam Sensor. He now thinks it might be in the wiring, but at this point my wife is ready for a different vehicle, so it's "game over". (Bought a '19 Honda CR-V on Saturday.) So now (with only just over 105,000 miles on it) I have to decide whether to take it elsewhere, pay more, and maybe have someone else tell me that it cannot be fixed, and just throw more good money after bad (or maybe spend more getting it fixed than I can sell it for), try to sell it as is, sell my work car (2010 Dodge Caravan almost 140,000 miles) and drive it as is. (The mechanic thinks that the problem, what ever it is, may be the reason the ECM went bad, and that using it as is will result in burning out another. To be honest, however, I’m not convinced the original one was really bad. I asked him, among other questions, how much better it ran after they cleaned the throttle body, which they did first, but he never answered.) And now, although the past two days have been warm, even almost hot, here in Ohio I know that won’t last, and I don’t have a heated shop to work on it myself. So, once again, if anyone can give me a good idea of what the issue is, it would be much appreciated.

We've had three different MoPar minivans - 93 & 2000 Chrysler T&Cs, and now have a 2010 Dodge GC. My favorite was the 93. Nicest vehicle I've ever owned.

Just to add a bit more info here, after watching some videos and doing more searching here on the forum. First, a self disclosure. In some other threads here about the throttle body, a new guy was dissed because he didn't know where the throttle body was located. Well, I didn't either. Had no idea what it is. I'm going on 67. I did my first engine swap when I was 21. I did my first overhaul when I was 24. BUT, that was a flathead in-line 6, a Plymouth 230. A couple of years later I had an intake leak on my 72 Dodge 318. Pulled it all apart and replaced the gasket. Not a complicated job at all, really, but while I had it apart my brother-in-law, who was in construction, looked under the hood and said "That car will never run again." (It did.) Then we moved to Brazil, where we didn't have vehicle of our own for quite a few years. Then I bought an 84 Volkswagon, the model that was called the Fox here (Voyage there), but it was an alcohol engine. It barely ran when I bought it, immediately replaced the carburetor, because the alcohol eventually eats out the inside of the carb, and you can no longer adjust the fuel-air mixture. Ran fine after that, but later needed to have the valves reseated. (I didn't have the tools there for that job, so I just did the R & R.) My point is that although I've had a good deal of experience with engine work, I didn't know where the throttle body was on a modern engine. Living out of the country for 18 years, and then owning a 15+ year old car there, I missed that whole transition period, when cars went from carbureted fuel systems to fuel injection. Not to strike back at anyone, or to be bragging, but some of the guys here were still making messes in their diapers when I did that first engine overhaul. So maybe some will say I shouldn't own (or be trying to maintain) modern vehicles. Well, if it wasn't for my wife's insistence, I would only have old vehicles, the ones I know how to work on. No one has said anything like that to me, yet. But by modern standards, I "deserve it". I would, however, suggest a bit more restraint in dealing with people before coming on with the smart-alec comebacks. Think of people like me as your old grandpa who grew up in that rather different era. Now, for more info on my issue here with the Journey. I ran through the process of "resetting the throttle body" as described by various forum members here, in other threads. (Thanks for that, by the way.) That didn't change anything, but I noticed then that while it runs fine when first started, the RPMs began to drop after a few minutes, then the engine starts to shake like all get out, and it barely keeps running. I hope no one is offended by what I said here. I do not mean it that way. I know - we can easily become that crusty old guy who has no patience with new-comers. I participate on the post-war Plymouth forum, and maybe I've been guilty myself. But we don't get new people into the hobby by making them feel stupid.

My son-in-law sent over an ODB II analyzer (or what ever it is called), and my son helped pull the following codes: CONFIRMED PO 336 Generic - Powertrain Crankshaft Position Sensor “A” Circuit Range/Performance PO315 Generic - Powertrain Crankshaft Position System Variation Not Learned PO300 Generic - Powertrain Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected P2004 Generic - Powertrain Intake Runner Manifold Control Stuck Open Bank 1 P2004 Mercedez-Benz – Powertrain Upgrade to get manufacturer specific codes UO402 Generic – Network Invalid Date Received from TCM PO339 Generic - Powertrain Crankshaft Position Sensor “A” Circuit Intermittent PO335 Generic - Powertrain Crankshaft Position Sensor “A” Circuit PO606 Generic - Powertrain Control Module Processor PENDING PO300 Generic - Powertrain Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected P2004 Generic - Powertrain Intake Runner Manifold Control Stuck Open Bank 1 P2004 Mercedez-Benz – Powertrain Upgrade to get manufacturer specific codes PERMANENT No Permanent Diagnostic Trouble Codes Reported I'm pretty certain that fixing this is beyond my skills, but just wondering if this indicates a major computer controller failure. In other words, is this going to kill off this 14 year old car? (I readily admit that this is WAY outside my experience level.) Oh, and this was done with the engine running.

I said 'if the filling station had a breach". I really doubt that they did, because the one where my wife usually fills up is on top of a hill. But there WAS a terrific down-pour in a very short time span. I just mentioned the possibility because the car was inside the garage during the entire storm, and is actually rarely out in the rain. (I DO know that in some languages the English words 'if' and 'since' are translated with the exact same word, and the context determines the meaning. Usually.) I'll follow up on the suggestions made so far as soon as the nearby stores open again.

OK. Will have to take a look. Like I told the other gentleman, I'm "old-school" on vehicle maintenance. (If it was up to me alone, I would just stick with the older vehicles. I have a 46 Plymouth I want to get back on the road. Had it since 1980.)

Thanks for the reply. Yes, it is the 2.4 Four Banger. The car was in the garage during the storm, but yes, of course the humidity is also high. And if the filling station had a breach of their gasoline tanks, then there's that possibility, too. As concerns maintenance, I know that I have not replaced the parts you mention. After I got back home and looked at it, I did just about everything my wife said she was doing when it acted up for her, but now she's afraid to drive it. So I guess I have to do SOMETHING. (Because the only time I drive it is on Sunday mornings to church, and only occasionally otherwise.) Should I plan on replacing the throttle body? Maybe I shouldn't be doing so much of the maintenance on our cars anymore, since I learned on the older carburetor engines, setting the points, and all of that good stuff. (I had a shop do a bunch of front-end work a year or so back, but other than that, I do it all. Just never worked on the front wheel drive system of any vehicle.)

Our 2009 Journey did a weird thing to my wife this morning. She started the car, and the Direction Control icon (skidding tires) came on before she put the car in reverse to back out of the parking spot. The engine was also running rough - small lurches as she described it. It dies a few times before she was able to go, and it seemed to run better w/o the A/C going. It died 2 or 3 times at stop lights or stop signs, before she go to the next place. Then it died when she tried to back out there as well (after leaving it running the whole time while there). On-line searches suggest that it might be a failing brake light switch, or the Direction Control system going haywire. But what could cause ALL of these issues except a major malfunction of the central computer module? I started it several times after I got home for lunch, backed up, went forward, etc., had the A/C on. Listened to the A/C with a stick against it and on the bone behind my ear, all of that. It's working fine now, as far as I can tell. We DID also just fill up (gasoline) a couple of days ago, but drove about 25 miles on Sunday, going to services at a convention in the area in stead of our regular congregation. It never acted up like this before. (I thought also about the fuel filter, and haven't replaced it recently. Also have not had a general tune-up for quite a long time.) The car has just over 105,000 on it. [In case anyone has noticed that I've not been on here for a long time - which I doubt - we were w/o internet for 4 weeks after a big storm here in Holmes County Ohio. ("Derencho", they called it. Had lots of trees down all over, one on the house, and a big Black Walnut uprooted in the back yard. About the internet service, we actually just finally got a different provider.]

That guy hasn't been on the forum since 3 days after he posted that for sale notice. (Might be lurking from time to time, but not logged in.)

You know, it's crazy to me that the same filter is indicated for my 2010 Dodge Caravan with the 4.0 V6 as is indicated for my 2009 Journey, with the 4 banger. I know some will say it does no good, or even that it will "harm" something, but I use the largest filter that will physically fit, the 10575, on both of them. Always have, and I have never had any engine problems that could possibly be attributed to this practice, on any vehicle I've ever owned. (That's about 45 years of personal auto maintenance, as I have never had anyone else change my oil.)