tstone

The cold engine noise with the 2.4 is because the lifters are solid tappets. Perfectly normal. When the engine warms up the noise should go away. By today's standards this engine is crude and gruff, but after several years I am still having trouble digging up any info regarding true problems with it.

My money is on the tires having flat spots. Only 7500 miles on it as a 2012 means it has been sitting around. These vehicles come equipped with cheap, crappy Chinese tires that will not last more than 1 or 2 years before developing the classic 60 mph shake.

Mine is just over 3 yrs old and after a few days with temps in the mid-90s the battery died, fortunately in the driveway. Just for information you need 3 tools. A 10mm wrench, a 13mm wrench and a plastic plug remover tool like this: You have to jack the car up and remove the driver side front tire first, then use the tool to remove the plugs that hold in the panel, remove the bracket that holds the battery down (13mm) and then loosen the terminal screws (10mm). It's a pain but it's a pretty straightforward job.

*BUMP* With 24k miles I finally had enough of the Hankooks. As mentioned, I rotated the shaky tires to the rear but the fronts' vibration was getting gradually worse @55-70 mph. The sidewalls were starting to feel weak, by the way the vehicle rode on the highway and especially by the way the it behaved over bumps. The outer depth of the treads on all 4 tires were 3/32" while the middles and inners were 5/32". I just wasn't feeling confident anymore, considering this is the family vehicle used 90% of the time for mom & small kids. So I finally followed through and bought the Michelin LTX M/S2's. (Discount Tire was running a $100 rebate on the set.) Huge difference. The sidewalls are definitely stiffer (typical of all the Michelins I've bought in the past), handling is improved and the vibrations @55-70mph are gone. The only negative is that the ride quality has stiffened up a bit-- these are definitely truck tires. But I'll take it as it feels 100% more confident than when it had those Hankooks. We'll see how these hold out over the long haul, but if they're like all the other Michelin's they'll hold up fine.

I'm still concerned that the brake booster, master cylinder and proprtioning block (underhood components) are mis-matched to the calipers, pads & rotors in your setup. Reason I say that is back in the day I had an old Mustang and people were converting '83-86 Foxbody Mustang discs & drums over to the larger '87-93 parts. Doing that, they had to change the vacuum booster, master cylinder and proportioning block to get the system to work properly. IIRC because of the different position of the underhood components, the brake lines also had to be replaced. Whatever the case it was too much work for me to consider. If you have mismatched parts you're going to have wearing problems and a possible safety issue. I'm not trying to crap on this thread but this is the #1 safety system on your entire vehicle. If we could have a parts guru verify that the '09-12 underhood braking components are indeed the same as the '13+ then this would be an upgrade everyone should consider.

Nice write-up. Do you know if the master cylinders and proportioning blocks are the same from earlier years vs 2013? Any issues with ABS? Also this doesn't look like an option for those of us with the 16'' steel wheels.

The problem is in the tires. It will vibrate all the same in any gear or neutral at about 60 mph and then disappear at higher speeds. Like I said- I rotated mine, sending the bad ones to the back and the vibration went away. I experimented further and loaded down the rear by putting my wife and some cargo back there, and found the vibration came back through the seats, but the steering wheel is still ok. So the bum tires do not like having a load put on them (cargo or a drivetrain). So the temporary solution is figure out which tires are bad and send them to the rear. It'll take a lot of rotations and test drives to figure that one out. When that solution stops working or if all 4 are bad, replace them with the high-end model of a name brand you'd find at Discount Tire or NTB. I'm hoping my solution will last at least 6 more months... but whenever it's time to replace my intent is to get those Michelins and report back here. Lesson learned: Make the dealership swap out those off-brand, Chinese tires before buying that new car.

No mudflaps here, just crappy tires. I noticed the rear bumper is a little floppy if you grab the bottom center and shake it. However I don't have the problem with the corners under the lights popping out.

Update: Instead of going to the shop with the special balancing machine I went ahead and did a tire rotation in my driveway. I started by rotating the driver side from front to back and took it for a spin; the vibration was still there but felt a lot better. Then I rotated the passenger side front to back and the vibration was totally gone. While doing this I measured the tread across several points on the front tires with my gauge. The outsides were reading 5/32 and the insides 7/32. I'm also pretty religious about keeping proper air pressure in my tires. Conclusion: these Hankooks are garbage. They are doing the exact same thing Falkens and Kumhos were doing on my Intrepid once they had about 20k miles. When I put on Michelin Hydroedge the set flawlessly ran 90k miles. So I'm going to try to squeeze a little more out of these and ditch them for a set of Michelins when they give me a sign; unfortunately there is no Hydroedge option here but I will likely go with the LTX M/S 2's.

I have the same shimmy on a 2011 Express at 18k miles, from 55-70 mph. Any slower or faster and it disappears. Everything besides this looks ok to me, including the rotors. It is due for a tire rotation and balance. I've had a lot of experience with different kinds of tires. The Falkens, Futuras, Kumhos were great when new, but right around 20k they started wearing unevenly, made the car pull to one side with no alignment problems, had squishy sidewalls with dimples or even aneurysms, could never be balanced once they started shaking, and I'll bet these Hankooks are the same garbage. On the other hand I've gone through Michelins, Dunlops, GoodYears and Firestones without any of these issues, although some of those can be so hard they slide in the rain. I am partial to Michelins, with the longest treadwear warranty I can find. Expensive up front but worth it over the long haul. They run those $70 rebate deals sometimes. But before I give up on these Chinese tires, I'm going to take it to a shop with one of these machines: http://www.gsp9700.com/how/ http://www.gsp9700.com/videos/index.cfm?cat=3 <== Look at "why does my car still shake?" From what I understand the service is expensive but it may be a necessity to get them through another 18k. (That's pretty pathetic for a tire now that I read my last sentence.)

Adding a couple more annoyances that have sprung up... The USB port in the console is dead. Haven't checked the Aux plug yet. On the driver seat, the bolster pad on the right (console) side seems to have fallen off the seat frame. So it is noticably bulging out if you look at it from the rear, and the arm rest rubs it when you lift it up. You can feel the metal seat frame with your shoulder if you lean back. I can't seem to grab the seat pad properly to hook it back onto the frame, so possibly an internal support piece fell off or wasn't even there to begin with. Pretty sad considering a 135 lb woman drives it. Also still an intermittent problem (maybe 10% of the time) is the cruise control not working and the cruise buttons sometimes doing strange things. And the clunk/tap at one axle when shifting from N to D or R, or feathering the gas from a coast in any gear. That hasn't gotten any better or worse. Looks like now with these 4 issues, a visit to the dealership is in the works. Although it still runs fine, I think Forbes is onto something. Vehicles nowadays all startup the first time and run fine; it's the small details that make it or break it on reviews. And I've never had a car with so many glitches.

A 2011 4 cyl would be an Express. The '11s had more standard options than the '12s such as tint, roof rack and LED tails. Mine is a twin to that one, same color. Inside it has the power driver seat, passenger seat folds flat, 3rd row & rear AC. Basically it's a Crew with the small engine... which works fine because the terrain around Houston is flat. Gets about 22-23 mpg commuting and 25-26 on the highway. I bought it new- so far there have only been a couple of minor problems (AC charge, CD player died). And it's had a handful of computer flashes, which is something you may want to look into. It was also recalled for a rivet in the steering mechanism-- also something to look into. Otherwise this should be a pretty reliable workhorse.

Yes, be on the lookout for a 2011 and test drive it to experience the dramatic improvement from the 2010.

I used synthetic from the start in my 2003 Intrepid 2.7L engine, and change it every 6000 miles during its warranty, and every 10k miles after it expired. Traded it in with 231k miles, had a couple of minor leaks, no sludge, and the engine still ran like a top. I flogged that thing regularly too, aside from the coolant bleeder valve it never had a problem. A bunch of other stuff started failing on it though, which is why I got rid of it. I had an old project car that used to sit for weeks at a time, and cold start even in the summer was always full of clicks and rattles. Put Mobil 1 15w50 in it and let it sit one time for 2 months, started up smoothly with no rattles. Synthetic is all I use in my cars. Anyway at Wal-mart, 5 qts = $23 so why not?

I had an '03 Intrepid that I was constantly turning front rotors on. The pads lasted a long time, but the rotors would warp every 20k miles. I'd pop them off, take them to O'reilly and have them resurface them until they got too thin, then replaced. When I was driving lots of highway miles for work (45k miles/yr), I kept a spare set in the garage ready to go. Didn't matter if they were OE or from the parts store, the rotors would warp. I hung out on the message boards where guys experimented with these fancy drilled/slotted rotors and they had the same problem. On the other hand, the rear brakes were perfect. I replaced the pads one time and never touched the rotors. Eventually traded the car in with 231k miles. I knew someone with a '01 Taurus with the same front rotor problem, and it sounds like other car-based vehicles have the same issue. This seems like either a design flaw or too much cost cutting in manufacturing. Fortunately on my '11 Journey there I haven't had a single brake issue yet. Keeping my fingers crossed. Been getting junk mail from lawyers regarding a class action lawsuit for this issue and a laundry list of others.

These apparently have the Avenger 6-way power seat mechanism, except in reality it is closer to a 5-way. The two height adjustments don't pivot on two points (like every other car with power seats over the past 30+ years). Instead there is no pivot... there is simply a height adjustment, and then an adjustment that raises/lowers your knees. You can't tilt from the height adjustments... which in an Avenger/200 is absolutely horrible, but it works quite well for me in the Journey. I typically put the seat at a middle height, with the knee adjustment all the way up. Then the lumbar all the way to the bottom and out about 1/4. I pull the steering wheel all the way out, adjust the seat for the appropriate leg room, and then lock in the steering wheel height. At this point I can grip the top of the steering wheel with my hand with my elbow completely straight. Then when I get on the road I do very minor tweaks to both the lumbar and the knee height adjustments. Once I'm set I can ride for several hours like this. Oh yeah, and I always empty my pockets before driving, both fronts and rears.

I have mixed feelings about our Journey and the article. First this article slams handling and says it feels larger than it is, but other reviews have said the exact opposite with the 2011 refresh. Ours is basically a "mom" car, the reason she liked it is because it was a bit narrower than other midsize crossovers, makes her feel more confident driving/parking around the city. It is a bit longer, encroaching on Durango length, though, which could be why some would complain about it. But for its footprint size, I think it handles fine. Also I can understand how some are annoyed with the 4 cyl/4 spd setup, but that's a big reason it's a best buy. The engine isn't refined but I still think it's slightly quieter than a Duratec 2.5, not quite as good as an Ecotec 2.4 though. I admit the transmission felt pretty awkward as it was breaking in but after about 9000 miles the torque convertor knows what to do, and the bump-shifts smoothed out. Cruising at highway speeds is fine. Reliability as a workhorse for getting from point A to point B has been 100%. I especially like the way it rides on the highway. As far as quality goes, can't say I've been 100% pleased. The clock runs 5 minutes fast per month and no TSB has fixed that. Every once in awhile the cruise control does not want to turn on immediately-- there may be a reason (ESC?) for this though. The CD player ate a CD and died after 1 year, however with that fix we got a free year of XM. Also during its 2nd summer, the AC system was not cooling properly. The dealer said it wasn't charged properly @ the factory so they evacuated the system and recharged it, which seemed to fix it but we'll see what happens this summer. A few months ago the vehicle has developed a clunking sound at the driver side tire if you go from R-N-D-N-R etc, or if you feather the gas, coast, feather the gas, etc in any gear. When it did this initially I tightened the lug nuts (which weren't tightened properly at the factory), which solved it. The noise has come back and now I've read something about a axle/hub nut chronically coming loose on Avengers and Journeys. Having worked in a shop for a few years and understanding how everything is put together, it doesn't seem like a big deal yet. I'm going to inspect it and put a torque wrench on it when I rotate the tires. If that doesn't solve it, it's going back to the dealership. Overall I think the vehicle is comfortable, drives & rides well, great vehicle for our family with small children, but quality has been a bit of a let-down. Electronics glitches are somewhat forgivable but the others are a disappointment. Since the drivetrain seems solid, I'm thinking most likely if I can nip the glitches during the warranty period everything should remain trouble free afterwards. My Intrepid that I traded in at 231k miles was like that. It had a few initial glitches that were fixed under warranty, then it was ultra-reliable afterwards, then at about 225k about a dozen things started malfunctioning at once.

Hold up. This bulletin says "This bulletin applies to vehicle equipped with a 3.6L or 2.4L engine (sales code ERB or ED3) and a 6 speed automatic transmission..." Since when did the SE / AVP model with the 2.4L have a 6 speed?

Doesn't sound like any of that is true. An SE/AVP should have the 4 speed, and this is how the transmission works: http://www.allpar.co...sions/41TE.html It's also not a sealed unit. There is clearly a dipstick on the driver side under the hood. The only fluid you should use is Mopar brand ATF+4 and it is about $7-8/qt. The break-in period for mine was about 9,000 miles, and then it smoothed out. At first it felt strange, like it was bucking, torque convertor was vibrating, shifted like a manual with a delay between gears, etc. Now it's fine. This transmission doesn't exactly feel refined or modern since it has been around since 1989. I had an '03 Intrepid with a variant of this transmission and it felt very similar. Traded that car in with 231,000 original miles, when it started having trouble getting into gear first thing in the morning (among a list of other glitches). In hindsight, it could've been doing that because the fluid was original, except for a 5 qt pan drop & filter performed @ 60,000 miles. Based on that experience I'm willing to bet the Journey 4 speed will go the long haul as long as you don't do any neutral drops.

What about a turbo conversion, like the SRT-4 Caliber engine?

I hear a ticking sound on startup, which is what all brand new 3.6's did on the dealership lot. BIG red flag to me, which is why I stuck with the 2.4. A new engine shouldn't be doing this. The roaring sound when it's cold for a little bit might be normal. I've heard others do this. Could be an emissions component.

Use Mopar coolant!!!

Use whatever plug is listed in the owner's manual. Same brand, same exact model number. Do not deviate.

I don't know anything about nitrogen. I just use regular air. But I've found the EVIC to be 2-3 pounds higher than my 2 hand gauges. I'd trust the hand gauge for actual pressure. The TPMS is just an early warning system to me, so I'm not unknowingly running flat on the road, risking blowing out in heavy traffic.

The diagrams of the front seats and certain views of the dash in the 2011 diagrams have obviously not been updated.