Lobitz68 Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 I really love my DJ, but the sound level and clarity provided by the stock speakers sounds like its coming from, well, stock speakers (not so good). So, I have decided to upgrade the speakers to give me the volume and clarity that I am looking for. Normally I might just replace the shitty paper speakers with some nicer aftermarket replacement speakers, but the fact that I have to crank the stereo to really hear it with the windows down has lead me to amplified aftermarket speakers. All of this being said, I am not an audiophile and do not need perfect staging or the highest end sound...I just need improvement. So, here is my plan... I welcome your opinions and criticisms (keep it civil). For the front, I am planning on going with component speakers. I plan to get something in the 60-80 watt range and plan on mounting the separate tweeter in the sail panel on the door. I will amplify these. For the rears I am thinking about just replacing the stock speakers with a decent aftermarket that can be driven by the head unit. I will NOT amplify these. I am also planning on adding a subwoofer. Likely a 12" that runs on low power, maybe something in the 250-300 watt range. This will be mounted in a custom enclosure behind the rear passenger side panel in the cargo area. I spend all of my time in the front of the vehicle, so I am most concerned about the sound there... I think that aftermarket replacements will sound just fine in the rears coupled with all of the other upgrades that I want to make. By going this route I hope to be able to get by with a single 3-channel amp an minimal additional wiring (will only have to run new wire to the front speakers rather than all 4). I think that this will satisfy my sound requirements and enhance the listening experience significantly. Does anyone see any issues with this route? Does anyone have any suggestions based off their personal experiences that are different from the route I have chosen? And, most importantly, has anyone run into an issues installing aftermarket audio upgrades to their DJ? I have PLENTY of experience installing audio systems, but any other suggestions or opinions you have to offer are appreciated (we can always learn something new)... Thanks gang! Appreciate the insight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecrazyfoo4u Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 I think the only thing in question is whether a 3-channel amp exists to power speakers and a sub. I don't think they do...subs run off of a class D mono amp, and speakers off of a class A/B 2- or 4-channel amp typically. I've never seen an amplifier that combines the two different types. I wonder if you can use the stock amp under the passenger seat to run the front speakers? Disconnect the rear speakers from it and try to double up the power on the fronts? I've found the stock speakers/amp plenty loud enough for my needs. Just a huge lack in bass that's dissapointing. But it's the wife's kid hauler, so I probably won't splurge the cash on upgrading it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis9935 Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 Good luck getting a signal with the Canbus! Once you remove the stock speaker wire to the speaker it kills the signal! Or frys the stereo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobitz68 Posted June 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 I think the only thing in question is whether a 3-channel amp exists to power speakers and a sub. I don't think they do...subs run off of a class D mono amp, and speakers off of a class A/B 2- or 4-channel amp typically. I've never seen an amplifier that combines the two different types. I wonder if you can use the stock amp under the passenger seat to run the front speakers? Disconnect the rear speakers from it and try to double up the power on the fronts? I've found the stock speakers/amp plenty loud enough for my needs. Just a huge lack in bass that's dissapointing. But it's the wife's kid hauler, so I probably won't splurge the cash on upgrading it... I meant a 4-channel amp...my bad. 1 channel for each front speaker and the sub running off of the other two bridged... I have the base 6 speaker stereo with the 8.4" screen, no stock amplifier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobitz68 Posted June 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 Good luck getting a signal with the Canbus! Once you remove the stock speaker wire to the speaker it kills the signal! Or frys the stereo! Care to explain further? I upgraded my 2012 Avenger without any issues and it runs off of the same canbus system as the DJ. I will likely have to use a LOC for the amplified speakers and sub, but that isn't an issue. You just need to tap into the wiring from the speaker side. Unless I'm missing something???? Either way, your post would be more helpful if you expanded on your thoughts some. Thanks for the feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecrazyfoo4u Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 I meant a 4-channel amp...my bad. 1 channel for each front speaker and the sub running off of the other two bridged... I have the base 6 speaker stereo with the 8.4" screen, no stock amplifier. I guess the only downside to that would be less efficiency/power out of the 4-channel for the subwoofer. And you wouldn't be able to individually adjust the subwoofer/speaker settings (low pass / high pass cutoffs / etc). I've always run a dedicate sub amp and a dedicated 2 or 4-channel speaker amp for higher power and ease of adjustments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobitz68 Posted June 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 I guess the only downside to that would be less efficiency/power out of the 4-channel for the subwoofer. And you wouldn't be able to individually adjust the subwoofer/speaker settings (low pass / high pass cutoffs / etc). I've always run a dedicate sub amp and a dedicated 2 or 4-channel speaker amp for higher power and ease of adjustments. That makes sense... I've contemplated a 5-channel, which would allow me that adjustability, but I just don't think I need to rear speakers amplified and the extra cost is definitely a factor if that is the case... That and I've found several 4-channel amps that allow you to use your high pass on 2 channels and low on the other 2 (bridged channel). I think this should work just fine. Once again, not the BEST option, but a very viable option that will meet my (not very lofty) goal of better sound (clarity) and more volume. My main goal here is simplicity and improvement at a reasonable price. 2 amps would certainly be the most functional, but it complicates other things like the need for a distribution block. It also adds cost (generally speaking). Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecrazyfoo4u Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 That makes sense... I've contemplated a 5-channel, which would allow me that adjustability, but I just don't think I need to rear speakers amplified and the extra cost is definitely a factor if that is the case... That and I've found several 4-channel amps that allow you to use your high pass on 2 channels and low on the other 2 (bridged channel). I think this should work just fine. Once again, not the BEST option, but a very viable option that will meet my (not very lofty) goal of better sound (clarity) and more volume. My main goal here is simplicity and improvement at a reasonable price. 2 amps would certainly be the most functional, but it complicates other things like the need for a distribution block. It also adds cost (generally speaking). Thoughts? Yeah, it's probably the best choice to keep it simple and cheap. Plus you're not going for huge power. You'll be just fine if you're only shooting for a few hundred watts on the sub. My mono setup in my other car is for 1000-1200 watts rms, so much different animal. I would highly recommend knukonceptz for wiring kits/terminals/fuses/etc. Some of the best stuff (for the cost) I've found out there. High power audio guys all use that brand. http://www.knukonceptz.com/ What are you looking to go with for brands and products? Are you going to stick with the stock 8" screen to control it all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobitz68 Posted June 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 Planning on keeping the stock stereo. I don't really have any brand loyalties; I have tried many different brands throughout my life and for my listening needs the big names are all pretty similar when keeping in my mind my budget conscious decision making process... I am still not entirely set on components, but it it edging out replacing all 6 speakers at this point due to the better staging and ease of install compared to dealing with the speakers in the dash. I'm just starting to feel this out and am unsure if I want to do the projector retrofit or the stereo first... The projectors would be cheaper (since I have just about everything pieced together), but the stereo really drives me nuts... I have had the DJ since early March and it is the longest I've gone without an upgraded stereo in a LONG time... It is killing me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis9935 Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 I did the same in my 12' Avenger! But I also had a Pioneer 7" touch screen DVD player, which had rca pre outs! You can't replace the stereo in the dj! I am using a Pac unit now for rca outputs, but it only works for the sub amp. Once you remove the speaker wires the stereo stops sending a signal to the speakers and the Pac module, you'll see, been there done that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecrazyfoo4u Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 This is also the first vehicle I haven't upgraded the stereo on. I'm used to swapping out the deck first, then speakers and sub. But I wasn't quite sure how to hook up the new amps to the stock stereo. Are there RCA's open behind the stereo to plug amps into? And what about the remote turn on wire, is there something in the stock wiring to add a remote turn on lead? I was never quite sure how to install amps on this vehicle? I would personally stick with infinity or alpine speakers (fairly cheap and great sounding IMO). I've had good success with JL Audio, MTX, and Rockford amps and subwoofers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecrazyfoo4u Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 I did the same in my 12' Avenger! But I also had a Pioneer 7" touch screen DVD player, which had rca pre outs! You can't replace the stereo in the dj! I am using a Pac unit now for rca outputs, but it only works for the sub amp. Once you remove the speaker wires the stereo stops sending a signal to the speakers and the Pac module, you'll see, been there done that. What is a pac unit? That's what I was wondering with the stock stereo, how to get rca outputs to go to the amplifiers. I think that's the hard part to workaround with the dang integrated stock stereo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis9935 Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 pacific accessories corporation? PAC C2A-CHY5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobitz68 Posted June 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) What is a pac unit? That's what I was wondering with the stock stereo, how to get rca outputs to go to the amplifiers. I think that's the hard part to workaround with the dang integrated stock stereo. It's a line out convertor that takes speaker level signals and converts them to RCA. If you get the right one (would have to look at the model number on the one on my Avenger, but I think it is the SOEM-4) the remote lead is taken care of internally... EDIT: I stand corrected, the unit he is referring to plugs into the back of the stereo... I am planning on using an actual line out convertor and connecting it on the speaker side (not the stereo side). This should be after any canbus interaction and should work fine... I guess I'll find out. Edited June 17, 2014 by Lobitz68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobitz68 Posted June 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 I did the same in my 12' Avenger! But I also had a Pioneer 7" touch screen DVD player, which had rca pre outs! You can't replace the stereo in the dj! I am using a Pac unit now for rca outputs, but it only works for the sub amp. Once you remove the speaker wires the stereo stops sending a signal to the speakers and the Pac module, you'll see, been there done that. Where did you tap in to get the signal for the LOC? I used the factory stereo on my Avenger and it worked fine. I guess it is something to look into, thanks for the heads up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecrazyfoo4u Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Okay, seems simple enough. You just attach it to any speaker lead and it converts the signal to RCA? Something like this right? http://www.amazon.com/PAC-SNI35-Adjustable-2-Channel-Converter/dp/B001EAWS3W/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1403017263&sr=1-1&keywords=line+output+converters I've never had to do that before since I've always had aftermarket decks with RCA's already included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobitz68 Posted June 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) I would spend the extra money for the PAC SOEM-4 (EDIT: replaced by the LP7-4). Very nice unit that is quiet (does not introduce noise into the signal), doesn't require a separate remote turn on lead, can receive up to 60w for the input signal and provides 4 channels... Very easy install once you figure out how to run the remote turn on (the instructions aren't very clear). I'm planning on using this one and will report if I have issues, or if it is a success... Edited June 17, 2014 by Lobitz68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecrazyfoo4u Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Awesome, thanks for the good info. Please update as you make purchase and progress! I'll be interested to see how it goes and what products you choose to go with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis9935 Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 The Pac C2A-CHY5 is the only way you will get rca patch cables working, it's plug & play, trust me tapping into the speaker leads won't work! I originally purchased a Soundstream oem integration unit and tried that method and it toasted the stereo! Luckily my dealer replaced it under warranty that one time! When the stereo don't see a 4ohm load it won't send a signal! I have had a full custom stereo in every vehicle I've owned (like 15 so far....) up till this one! But my 1800 watt RMS and 2-12"s in my journey are the loudest to date! Thank god we have a 160 amp alternator! Tho I do have a 800 cca Optima battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis9935 Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 I do have pics of my build thus far in my profile btw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobitz68 Posted June 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 I do have pics of my build thus far in my profile btw Cool. I'll take a peek... What have you done? Anyone have any thoughts on skipping the Components in the front doors and just replacing the 3.5" in the dash? Is it even worth replacing? Think I'd be able to hear it over the amped door speakers and sub if I left it stock or just didn't amplify the signal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobitz68 Posted June 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 I do have pics of my build thus far in my profile btw What is your opinion of the Sound Ordinance stuff? Quality built? Sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis9935 Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Had many dif boxes, those bass bunker boxes are the best I've heard! Had many slot ported boxes, never had the bass hit these have! Plus they fit perfectly back there, I used 2 boxes just on case I need to remove one for room. If you can find a way of amping the door speakers without the stereo cutting a signal that would be a miracle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobitz68 Posted June 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Had many dif boxes, those bass bunker boxes are the best I've heard! Had many slot ported boxes, never had the bass hit these have! Plus they fit perfectly back there, I used 2 boxes just on case I need to remove one for room. If you can find a way of amping the door speakers without the stereo cutting a signal that would be a miracle! Let's hope it's not a miracle! I'm hoping it goes smoothly and uneventful! My direction has changed a little bit on this build: I'm thinking that the 3.5" speakers in the dash may be enough to skip the components and just go with 2-ways in all 4 doors I still want to run a little more power to the front doors as those are the ones I am concerned about I may upgrade the rears, but not put any additional power to them since they are just filler anyway I may also upgrade the 3.5" speakers in the dash, but will probably wait to see what it sounds like with the factory speakers frist Rather than using a traditional LOC, I am looking at the Audio Control LC2i Still want to add a sub, but looking at the side panels, I'm not sure how big I can go. If I can't get at least a 10" in there, I may just put them in a box (I'd like to save the room though) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecrazyfoo4u Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 I would be interested to see if the stock sub location could be utilized for an upgraded 10" (probably have to be a shallow sub). The Audio Control LC2i looks interesting. Pretty much the same concept right? Splice into your speakers to create preamp outputs. But this one lets you control level adjustments it looks like. Is that why it costs so much more? I think you'll be fine with the stock dash speakers. That would be a pain to pull the dash to swap them out anyways I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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