dp360

If 04redmach1 can get you a better deal, go for it! Just my reminder to you is don't always get sold on interest rate. If this dealer really will sell you this car for $22,998 with a 4.9%/60 mo. loan, it should cost about $475.15/mo after taxes & title (I used an online calculator for the dealer's zip code). If you decided to forego that deal and managed to talk them down to invoice cost AND got $1,500 cash back with a 2.9%/60 mo loan, the monthly payment should be $486.71. So you can see, the higher interest rate deal actually costs less. The dealer's obviously making their profit on the financing. Of course, a lot variables/unknowns here so ultimately YOU have to decide if it's a good deal.

If you want to see the factory, click here...

Okay, starting to sound like typical dealer tactics. According to Edmunds (which I think is a little dated right now), dealer invoice on that exact set of options is $26,108. In *theory*, if this is what you pay, the dealer makes no profit. There are other ways for them to profit and you're running into one of them - the financing. Other ways include "coupons" they have with the manufacturer and extended warranties. There are certainly others that I don't know about so I never feel guilty about paying invoice for a vehicle, although some places say you should add about $500 or so to this to let the dealer make a fair profit. Chrysler is offering $1,500 back and 2.9% financing or $1000 back, 0% financing. Assuming you can qualify for the standard $1,500/2.9% deal, you could potentially net out to $24,608 ($25,108 with extra $500 dealer profit). This is still higher than the $22,998 the dealer wants to sell it to you for, so you just have to do the math and see if the 4.9% deal works out better. A more sizable down payment (if they allow it) makes the 4.9% deal even more attractive.

As far as I know, Toluca is where all are made. Look on the sticker inside your door, near the latch mechanism. It should show a build date and country of origin. Keep in mind the build date is probably MM-YY format.

Nah, don't worry about. You said yours was a little worse than mine and that's enough reference I need. I'll just be keeping my eye on the issue. In my case it wasn't too noticeable until I ran my finger over it. Like I said, the rest of the car was pretty filthy, too. Yesterday it warmed up to 55° so I took advantage of the weather and washed the car. She's shining in the sun now, once again! B)

I echo 04redmach1's sentiment that I think most, if not all the '09 issues have been addressed in the '10's. Doesn't mean we wont run into other problems, but so far, so good. The jury is still out on the brakes, but even there it is just a soft material issue and not a fundamental design flaw. At least now we know to keep an eye on them before they turn into a bigger problem (e.g. warped rotors). That's what forums like this are great for. I think the Journey was bit by bad timing. It was launched at a very tumultuous time in the company history and it didn't help that upper management knew nothing about running a car company. Management's been changed, they've acknowledged their faults and they say they're doing something about it. Only time will tell but anecdotal evidence offers no reason to doubt them. I DO know, however, that you can get some really killer deals on Journeys right now. Forget MSRP - if you're not getting at least 15-20% off, you're not getting a good deal. You could probably do even better if you try hard or are lucky.

Okay, now having looked at the rest of this dealer's site, I see they've discounted all their SXT's the same, so that must be part of their year-end-desperation, I mean, wrap-up. If you can get rebates on top of this, I'd say it's a darn good price.

It's very close to what I paid. I don't have the rear video option (but I did get the Blue Pearl paint), so yes, it looks decent. My only question is, what is the "discount" for? is it damaged? Is it a buy-back? Does it have high mileage? When I was shopping around, one place tried to push a 2009 loaded R/T for a pretty good price, but I was turned off by the fact that it had 3400 miles on it. Either it had been test driven a lot or some of the salespeople had taken it home. Having lived my high-school years as a good friend of the son of a local GM dealership manager, I can say with experience that you do not want to buy a car that has been taken home by salesmen. We had a lot of fun in brand new Firebirds and Fieros that I'm sure their ultimate owners would not have appreciated!

I posted pics of mine over in the "Brake Wear?" thread in the technical forum - a more appropriate place for this discussion: http://www.dodgejourneyforum.com/index.php...entry6448

"04redmach1" was complaining of excessive brake dust. His Journey was purchased within a week or two of mine. I currently have ~1000 miles on mine and this is what the rims look like. They have yet to be washed. I ran my finger across it so you can see how dirty it is. Is this brake dust excessive? I think it's acceptable, especially seeing how the rest of the car is pretty filthy right now, but I'll let others correct me if I'm wrong.

You wouldn't happen to be able to post pics of what you consider horrible, would you? I don't know if I'm simply not having that problem or my tolerance for brake dust is high. I've got 1000 miles now without having washed it. Sure there's some dust, but I wouldn't classify it as horrible.

Have you had issues with your brakes already?

I will add, having test drove a Journey immediately after test driving a Caliber, the difference is night & day!

I had (still have, actually) an '00 Intrepid that held the cruise speed perfectly. Then my wife got an '02 Caravan that exhibited the same phenomenon as reported here for the Journey. Used to drive me nuts until I concluded that it must be more efficient for fuel economy and that's why they changed their cruise control logic. I eventually learned to live with it.

There's a much bigger picture going on here that affects Tonymnyphot's experiences as well as many others. This company (Chrysler) has been been put through the wringer over the past decade. They've gone from top-of-the-world down to bankruptcy during that time frame. The chain of management and ownership miscues along the way are too numerous to go into here. Frankly, it's been amazing that they're still able to design, produce and sell cars at all. The past three years have been particularly harrowing. Cerberus came in with a mission to slash costs and make the company look good on paper so they could sell them. Quality suffered as a result. I don't care who you are, you're just not going to be enthusiastic about designing, building, testing, marketing, etc. a product when you have no idea if your job or the company you work for is going to be there tomorrow. The economy nosediving just makes things worse. However, somewhere along the way Cerberus realized they were on the road to ruin and they had to do something about it. They began talking to Fiat in an effort to form a partnership with someone who actually had experience building cars. They also needed to focus on quality in order to keep cars selling. An interesting read would be the following article: http://detnews.com/article/20091119/AUTO01...s-in-on-quality Eventually, bankruptcy happened because the economy tanked and the company ran out of money. I'm sure the Fiat deal would have happened anyway, only with some real $$$ behind it. Fiat made out good because they got 20% of the company without spending a single dime. Of course, unlike Daimler, Fiat seems genuinely interested not only in saving Chrysler, but making it an integral part of it's worldwide operations. Now the company has renewed vigor and ambition, as anyone who has been to the brink and gotten a reprieve would have. Anyway, how's all this affect us Journey owners? By Chrysler's own admission, 2007-2008 was a very dark period quality-wise. Design and manufacturing defects were at an extremely high level, way above the 2006 levels which had remained relatively flat for the previous few years. By early 2009, they claim to be back at 2006 levels with the goal of not stopping there (see article). If you have a Journey built in the 2007-2008, you're likely to experience an unusually large number of defects. Unfortunately, this was the launch window for this product, so a LOT of what is written on the web reflects a product built during those dark days. Does this mean a vehicle built in 2009 is going to be perfect? Of course not. If Chrysler's renewed commitment to quality is for real and ongoing, by definition, a November '09 built product should have fewer defects than a January '09 built one. My anecdotal research kind of supports this. Only time will truly tell. As for me, I took a chance on the improved quality being for real and not just a bunch of marketing BS. I bought a '10 SXT built in October '09. Maybe I've drank the company Kool Aid, but I'm shooting for zero defects in my first three months of ownership. This is the period by which "Initial Quality" is measured. I'm reporting my experiences over at http://www.truedelta.com for all the world to see. Of course, I'll also post my experiences here. BTW, if you have a '10 Journey, go over to True Delta and register your vehicle. They've got plenty of '09 data but need '10 owners to report their experiences. FWIW, their '09 data shows that Journey quality has improved over the year but is still considered below industry average. And for those wondering about Journey's future, a vehicle "refresh" is slated for MY 2011. This is supposed to include powertrain changes, exterior styling tweaks and an interior redesign.

Well, definitely post some pictures no matter what option you go with. I'd like to see some front profile shots, not just zoomed in pictures of the grille. That way you can see the effect it has on the vehicle's appearance as a whole.

I like Option #2 the best, too, but the bent-up look kind of bothers me as well. I've seen various pictures and some look worse than others, so it's possible that they don't look as bad in person as the photos make them out to be. It's also possible that, because of the angular corners at the bottom right & left of the grill, truly parallel bars might not look as good as you imagine. Any other manufacturer's for custom grille's?

I think the Pentastar (aka Phoenix) engine will appear in the Journey for MY 2011. The "five year plan" calls for a refresh of the Journey next year. This is supposed to include powertrain changes, a new interior as well as exterior refinements. One can only assume the power train changes will include the Pentastar engine (which is supposed to be pretty slick) as well as improved versions of the 4 cylinder World Engine. I just bought a '10 SXT. Unfortunately, my timing for needing a new vehicle kind of stunk. On the plus side, I don't have to be guinea pig for major new changes!

I, too, have notice a low-speed "weirdness" when I first start up at the beginning of the day. I have not been able to put my finger on what exactly it is so I can't even describe it. Not sure I'd describe it as a slipping tranny, though. Anyway, I did come across something, either in the printed manual or DVD (can't remember where), that stated that the electronic stability control system goes through a self check the first time you start up your car and begin rolling at a slow speed (5-7 MPH, I think). I've just attributed the "weirdness" to that and have been pretty happy just ignoring it. I also found that if my first acceleration out of the driveway is mild, I don't notice the phenomenon at all.

Congrats! Looks just like mine!

Yes, ESP is always on. The light comes on in the dash when the program kicks in and is actually doing something. Saw it myself this morning. It's raining outside and whenever I accelerated too hard from a stop, the light kicked on. Without ESP, I would have spun the tires. This is what the DVD is referring to when they say ease up on the accelerator. It's the polite way of saying "You're accelerating too hard, you idiot!" As RAV points out, in exceptional conditions such as mud or slushy snow, you may want to turn ESP off because it would be essentially like driving with your foot on the gas and brake pedal at the same time. In those situations, you may want a little slippage just to keep the car moving.

I've got cloth, which suits me fine. I've never been a big leather fan, but that's just me. My car's way too new to comment on durability. I did manage to spill some coffee on the floor carpet, though. It came right out with a napkin.

I just took delivery of a Deep Water Blue Pearl '10 SXT last Friday. Managed to get 0%/48 financing. Had 4 mi on the odometer and it's up to about 350mi now. There have been no problems at all, just as anyone should expect out of a new car. The Journey feels very solid to me - more so than any new car I've ever purchased. Maybe that's because it's been eight years since I bought a new car, though! I plan on heavily accessorizing the car over the next year(s). This forum has given me some good ideas. I've also learned that I should take it in for a full brake inspection at 11,900 miles. You've got to think that the brake issue has been resolved, but who knows... On a funny note, I thought I had a rattle from the right rear door after taking delivery. Sounded like something inside the door was banging around when I hit bumps. I was kind of pissed, to tell the truth. After a day of letting that rattle tarnish my new car experience, I went back there to check it out. Turns out whoever prepped the vehicle left their razor glass scraper knife in the door pocket. It was rattling around and making the noise. So, not only was it a false alarm, but I got a free glass scraper out of the deal! DP