jeffhoward001

We originally started talk about transmissions on my "285 vs 305hp" thread. Thought I'd share this new data on a new thread that's specifically focused on the transmission. 1) Can't remember who, but someone mentioned that "adaptation" in the TCU may make the transmission "feel" a little better after it adapts to my driving style. I'm happy to report, "Yes and Yes" After about a month of drive, shifts seem to be a little more crisp and it seems to down-shift a little sooner (which fits my driving style). 2) So the biggest annoyance now is the dreaded 35mph "death zone". I'll explain - Both me (the "car guy") and my wife (knows nothing about cars) both had the same fundamental complain - right around 35mph, (which happens to be the speed limit on all the streets with hills around our house) the DJ kind of "poops out". After some playing around with it, I realized that it's the shift from 3rd gear to 4th gear. ...It shifts into 4th gear, loses considerable power ...which forces you to press harder on the accelerator forcing a down-shift ...which in-turn surges the car forward ...which in-turn encourages you to let off the accelerator ...which in-turn causes an up-shift to 4th ...which in-turn... you get the idea. It's most annoying on hills where the drop in power really matters. So I pulled some data on the HP/TQ curve of the Journey's 3.6L as well as some logged shift points at different speeds, and suddenly it all makes sense. The largest ratio-difference is between 3-4. Referencing the data below, you can see there's a huge drop (36%) in the ratio difference between 3rd and 4th. While that in itself isn't a huge deal, it becomes a huge deal when you see how that effects the power output of the engine. The range from 2000-3000rpm is what I would consider the "bread-n-butter" RPM range for this engine during regular driving. 1st gear is really low, and the TCU knows it. So (this is my assumption) they programmed the TCU to hold 1st gear a little longer when you have anything more than moderate throttle pressure. This makes for slightly higher revs coming out of 1st, however it's a great shifting experience. It revs out to a little over 3K, which drops you nicely into 2200 rpm range in 2nd. PLUS, the power will always feel more responsive with higher ratios because the engine has more "cranking force" against the drivetrain. They did a great job with the 2-3 ratios by dropped the ratio between 2nd and 3rd to just 19%. Again, this provides a great shifting experience because the drop in percentage difference means a 3K rev in 2nd will drop you into a nice spot on the TQ-curve in 3rd @ around 2500 rpm. So here's the rub... They screw it all up with 3rd to 4th. Like I was saying before, the higher the ratio, the more "pull" the engine has against the drivetrain. So they really shoot themselves in the foot on 3rd to 4th. They not only exceed the transmission average of around 30% per-shift, but do so (unfortunately) at a VERY critical time in the driving experience (~35-45 mph). Looking at the data, you experience (roughly) a 55hp drop in power when the engine shifts from 3rd to 4th @ 3K revs. Rarely does data so perfectly match real-world situations, but that is exactly what it feels like. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd feel like a nice well-tuned V6, then when it hits 4th, it feels like you took the engine out of my wife's Civic and dropped it into the Journey. Which, given the HP numbers at the 1800rpm, that would be a pretty accurate comparison!! So what's the fix? I think two things: 1) They need to have the transmission hold 3rd longer, especially when there's additional throttle pressure. The easiest way to "detect" a hill is simply by measuring throttle pressure against speed. On a 6% grade, you will likely need to press the throttle 25-30% more to achieve the same acceleration as you would flat ground. 2) I don't know if this is getting too complicated for TCU programming, but when it detects a down-shift from 4th to 3rd, I think it would make sense for it to continue holding 3rd even if the driver lets off the throttle a little. This would prevent the vicious down-shift/surge/decelerate/up-shift situation I described above. Longer-term fix would be to actually use the funky "fourth-prime" gear as a regular gear, and spread the ratios out a little more over seven gears (yes, there's a hidden seventh gear inside all of your Journey's )

This is true... Once you have it though, it's tough to go back to not!

Hi All - I was surprised to find out that none of the DJ trims come with seat position or side-mirror memory! I assumed that the entry level models wouldn't, but was surprised to see that it's also not offered on the Limited or R/T trims. This is a huge bummer because it's offered on the Durango, and I was excited to eventually see if I could source the hardware for it "upgrade" my 2012 DJ Crew. Anyway does anyone know if there's aftermarket hardware for power seat position memory, or if you can source the Durango or Cherokee hardware are retrofit it to work with the DJ? It's a shame to have power seats and power mirrors, but not be able to save the different "positions" for different drivers (namely myself and my wife Thanks,

Hi All - This is (was) my quest to better understand what (if anything) the UConnect Mobile app can do on my 2012 8.4/RE2 System. Turns out so far the answer is really "nothing". My end goal was to simply get the Pandora integration working where you can see your playlists and select your channel from the 8.4 touchscreen. My understanding is that this is done through the "App" screen on the 8.4, which does not exist on the 8.4/RE2. I had a chat session with UConnect Tech Support, and they said that "...UConnect Mobile services where (are?) only available on select RA3 and RA4 8.4 UConnect systems..." WHAT??!?! Why would you develop something like that for a small sub-set of your vehicles. You think that would be universal... Apparently the RA3 and RA4 units are only used in some models (like the Durango). So if I'm understanding correctly, no one with a Journey (even if it's a brand new 2015) has any use for the UConnect Mobile app integration?

Fair enough, so it sounds like the 2012 RE2 will never have the Pandora uConnect integration It's Ok though, bluetooth still works great

+1 on the transmission shifting... We took our new Journey to the coast last weekend, and while it drives really smooth, I would best describe the shifting as "sloppy". It doesn't give me the feeling like anything is wrong or going to break, but just not nearly as "crisp" as I expected. It's strange because the transmission on my '77 Dodge D200 actually feels best to me out of all the vehicles I've owned in the past 20 years. It's shift quickly and crisp. My 2002 Audi had a five-speed auto tiptronic transmission that was know for slow shifts, but not as sloppy as the Journey, What's your take on Mopar's positioning with this transmission? They use it in a ton of rigs now, so they're clearly invested in the platform. If they could clean up the shifting with a TCU update, I'm assuming they would. Just seems strange to me given how long this transmissions been out. You'd think all the kinks would be worked out.

Thanks RaptorsFan, quick question though - How do you plan on doing the update? Are you taking it into the dealer, or attempting it yourself?

Did quite a bit of searching, and couldn't find anything on software upgrades for the 8.4 (not nav version). When I installed the UConnect software on my phone, it said there, "...there may be a software upgrade for your car's UConnect system and enables additional functionality..." So I went online and entered by VIN, however their website is wrong. It correctly lists my car as a 2012 Dodge Journey AWD Crew, however it thinks my car should have a 4.3S and not the 8.4. Which doesn't make any sense is that the 2012 Crew trim came standard with 8.4 UConnect, so something is screwy with their VIN look-up. Long story short, all I really want is the ability to control Pandora from the touch-screen on my Journey, is that too much to ask for 8.4 on a 2012? I saw some info on another Dodge forum with how to manually upgrade, but wanted to check on a Journey-specific forum first. If I understand the technology correctly, it's pretty cool. The update add an "app" section where you can launch Pandora from your 8.4 and see all your stations and such right on the touchscreen. I guess the easiest way to answer the question would be from an existing 2012 Journey owner with 8.4. Have you been able to get the UConnect mobile features working? Thanks guys, - Jeff

All fair answers I've always been a tuner, so it's something I really enjoy talking about, testing, tweaking, etc. So one thing to consider (especially with variable valve-timing engines) is that while the top-end power may not change much with a tune, you can move the torque curve around. I don't know much (yet) about the Mopar 3.6L VVT, but if it's similar to german cars, a big change in a "performance" mode is moving the torque curve back a bit (lower in the RPM range). We bought a 2012 AWD Journey Crew trim last Friday, and so far we're really happy with it (with no tuning!). I think this is going to be a great family car for us. Tough to let go of my Audi, it pushes 320hp and 300 lb/ft of torque, but it's time to move on... We have too many kids and too many grandparents to shuttle around!

Hello All - Looking at the Wiki for the Pentastar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Pentastar_engine#US_market_versions the 3.6L in the journey is rated @ 283hp (which is respectable) but the exact same engine in the Challenger is rated at 305hp. That's a fairly large difference that I have to assume only comes from a different fuel and/or VVT mapping in the ECU. A few questions on this: 1) I'm assuming it's possible to use the same sport tunes on the Journey ECU as the Challenger ECU, correct? I can't imagine Dodge using a different ECU for the same engine (however I CAN see them using different ECU programming to increase "driveablility") 2) The Pentastar has variable valve timing (VVT). If this works similar to german cars, this is HUGE in doing custom tunes for E85 flex-fuel. You can get 10-20% more horsepower in E85 if you have the ability to change the valve and ignition timing to take advantage of the higher compression ratios available on E85. While that may not sound like much, if you were able to tune the Challenger ECU program for E85, the potential exists to push 350hp by simply changing your ECU program and filling up on a tank of E85. That's a pretty attractive offer to get V8 performance out of commodity 3.6L engine. I'm sure you guys will redirect me to the Challenger forums (that was my next stop) But just curious if anyone in the Journey camp had attempted custom tunes. I have years of experience with custom tunes on high horsepower V6's, so no need to turn this into "...it's going to destroy your car!!..." thread I'm well aware of the risks of custom tuning, and the fact that there are a few simple things you can do to mitigate the majority of those risks. Thanks All,

Hello All - We are in the market for a new (our first) Journey. Started at the Durango, but realized it was out of our price range for what we're looking for. Anyway, we've done a lot of homework (including a few trips to the dealership) on the Journey and realized a few things. 1) The basic interior option is really basic! So we're in the market for at least one step up. It seems like the SXT Plus is the least-expensive for the nicer interior, does that sound right? 2) I can make another trip to the dealership to confirm, but thought I'd ask the forum first - We're buying this car for three kids that will (eventually) be the following ages - 2, 4, and 6. I'm using those ages because it's the worst case scenario for the uber-bulky car seats. We eye-balled it last time we were at the dealership and it *looks* like the following would work, but would love to hear experiences from actual owners - Going from front to back, we'd like to stick the 2 year old in the 2nd row behind the passengers seat, the 4 year old in the 2nd row MIDDLE seat, then the 6 year old in the 3rd row driver-side seat. The only catch is, will the fold-n-slide seat in the 2nd row driver side still slide forward with two car seats in the passenger & middle seats? It *looks* like it will, but wanted to see if anyone had experience with this. Our oldest would love this option because she thinks the 3rd row is a novelty, and she can get in/out of the car seat on her own. The reason we want to do it this way is that it's the most functional in terms of leaving an open seat for a third adult (if you have three kids and two parents). 3) 62TE Transmission - First off, I don't get it... Some people say they're fine, some people say they're garbage. With Six Sigma and all the manufacturing improvements over the past 30 years, I refuse to believe that individual 62TE's build quality really differs that much from car to car within the same year/revision. So is this a year/revision thing? If so, are there years to avoid? We're looking at 2012-2014 solely based on price vs miles vs wear-n-tear. 4) 62TE Torque Rating - According the to Mopar numbering convention, this transmission has a torque rating of "2". Does anyone know what that means in terms of foot-lbs? Who knows if I'll actually ever do it, but there are some cool performance mods for the Pentastar. However I'd like to know the torque rating and/or any options for for upgrading the valve body in the 62TE before considering any performance enhancements to the engine. Lastly, does $25,993 seem like a reasonable price for the following SXT Plus? I know they don't have many pictures, but I've seen it in person and it has virtually no wear-n-tear on the interior. The price seems "reasonable" to be, but maybe a little high considering it has close to 13K miles in less than a year. http://www.dickhannahdodge.com/for-sale/used-2014-dodge-journey-sxt-p510802